I'm fairly sure NCR wiped out the state of the Brotherhood within NCR.

If we visited California, Lost Hills is probably a ruin now.

That doesn't mean they couldn't flee, though.

Based on what? If the Devs were going to to wipe out Lost Hills we would have been told. We have not. We have not even been told much of anything about what is happening back West when it comes to this "Brotherhood vs BoS" war. No one in NCR seems to talk about it. Brotherhood in New Vegas don't talk about it.

It's up in the air probably to leave things vague but it's a valid inference drawn from the fact that the Brotherhood lost the war with NCR. Given the inflexibility of the Codex it seems likely they were either forced to flee or go into hiding. The idea that Lost Hills is just "standing there" seems to be pretty out there. One would assume if it had surrendered we would have heard about it.

Of course, I actually like the idea the Mojave Brotherhood is the only remnant of the original BOS.

I'm late to this one but i have just one thing to ask. BoS did lose at Helios 1, why did they try and get some kind of assist from one of the other BoS branches?

Meat prevails, and NCR has more than the Brotherhood. However, using New Vegas as a guide, NCR's casualties woldn't be as high as first thought. Rangers are skilled and mean as hell, and have weapons fully capable of taking out power-armored opponents. In fact, using AP ammo, even a simple NCR tooper is a threat. Not a big one of alone, but infantry fight in teams. The only advantage the Brotherhood has is energy weapons, which don't counterbalance the NCR's crushing advantages in numbers, communications and logistics. The tactics used to fight power armor are almost exactly the ones used by infantry to fight tanks; heavy weapons to the front and scatter.

The BoS would make the NCR's inevitable victory very bloody, but it wouldn't change a thing. Except possibly make the NCR even more unwilling to be merciful when they break BoS bunkers open. I would not be surprised to hear later on that Lost Hills was overrun, along with most of the BoS presence in NCR's territory. Guerrilla war wouldn't work, since the BoS is so focused on technological superiority and it upkeep to fight, and only their bunkers are equipped to take care of it all.

Bunkers that NCR either knows where to find, or can root out. Guerrilla war only works when the enemy can't find where you sleep.

Because the western bos are tards and are getting slapped around by NCR. Who are they going to send to reinforce them?

Avoiding the assumption Lost Hills wasn't annihilated by NCR, it's probably because Helios One was of dubious value to begin with. Father Elijah wanted Archimedes II because he was a man with a god complex (Veronica - of course, is the first person to realize that it's not really all that effective of a weapon). The other Brotherhood probably realized that Helios One was a lost cause and would have told the Brothers there to retreat from a hopeless situation. Obviously, McNamara had an escape plan ready as he was able to do so as soon as Elijah abandoned them.

The others brothers would have had to cross half the Mojave Desert and THEN break a siege where the Mojave Chapter was outnumbered 20 to one. Undoubtedly, NCR would have reinforced them and probably it would have just gotten worse from there.

In short, the brothers undoubtedly realized that this was a STUPID STUPID waste of lives.

Brotherhood of Steel because we need badass power armor in our lives.

Exactly so any speculation is reasonable. Think man, even in Fallout the Hubites could say that the Brotherhood were somewhere to the north; in 2242 the BoS and NCR had decent relations. It's not entirely excusable that they could find Lost Hills and with that done its [censored]. The NCR found Navarro and destroyed that so I don't see why they couldn't do the same to the Brotherhood.

Maybe the Brotherhood successfully repelled an attack and then retreated before activating their self-destruct protocol.

I am a big fan of the Brotherhood of Steel and they always overcome the odds to win, either by using their tech or high level of training sure the NCR are massive and have the vertibird tech but so do the BOS
and they are using it to connect all their bases scattered over USA and bring all the tech back under their control also what other secret weapons have they found.

I'm not sure where this view came from given the Vault Dweller and the Chosen One saved California, not the Brotherhood. Also, NCR is the wronged party from what we see. The Brotherhood probably wanted to stop them from having advanced technology and NCR said, "You have no right."

Which, they didn't.

Only problem is, we would have been told about Lost Hills being destroyed. We would have been told the BoS were wiped out.

We were told about Navarro, once and for all closing the book on the Enclave in the West. I can't see the Devs not having a single mention of the destruction of Lost Hills or the total collapse of the Original Brotherhood.

NCR won against the BOS but without taking Huge body mass counts. BOS was at least outnumbered 15:1. BOS would win hands down the only reason they lost is because they didn't have the numbers. It says something that the BOS almost kicked there ass with just a few soldiers. BOS have superior tactics, Weapons, armor, and Leadership. So 9/10 times the BOS should win.

Where in New Vegas does it has Lost Hills has been destroyed and that the Brotherhood is no more? Very few if any mention of the Brotherhood back west in New Vegas. Just because there is little to know mention does not mean they are gone. An event like that deserves some mention!

Well, if Van Buren is canon or semi-canon, then the war has been going on 20+ years.

Maxson would be a priority target.

One thing I dislike is the "BOS is better at everything" thing, though. The BOS has always been an isolationist bunch of close minded fanatics. The fact they're COOL while they are this doesn't replace that.

NCR is a Vault-based society and probably has tech that's almost as good.

Their conventional Ranger armor is almost as good as Power Armor PLUS much easier to make. Ditto conventional weapons.

The BOS is a paper tiger.

It is not canon. I don't even see how it can be called Semi-Canon. I guess the people that control the Fallout wiki page still can't see Van Buren die :rolleyes:

The war between Brotherhood and NCR in Van Buren was very different, then the war in New Vegas. Outside of a few mentions in the ending slides there is little to know mention of the war between NCR and BoS outside of the Mojave.

I think people consider Van Buren semi-canon since so many elements have turned up in NV.

So many elements from Van Buren have shown up in New Vegas but they have all been completely changed. The stories are different, faction affiliation changed and locations. The only thing that stayed the same are the names. Sometimes not even the names. The Hanged Man is the Burned Man now.

Van Buren is not Canon or even semi-canon.

Does this include every single chapter of the Brotherhood of Steel in the entire American Wasteland? If so then the Brotherhood of Steel would win.

I personally hate the NCR.
I personally Love the BoS.


But the NCR simply wins, not because they are better, but the kind of sheer numbers they have is innumerable.

The BoS have small fortified bunkers, filled with up to 50 people.

The NCR has 50 people within every square mile of territory they own.

I hate the NCR. But they number in nearly the millions.

I would like the bos to win but there just outnumbered like crazy .At helios 1 there was more ncr troops than bos had ammo.

They numbered in the nearly the millions in 2242...Now they're probably getting up around 3-4 million.

It depends really. If it was just a flat out fight then the NCR would certainly win. However with the NCR preoccupied with the Legion, I'm certain the BOS could deal a lot of damage.

*Sitting at dest at camp Golf* You know I hate the bureaucratic side of this job, it just seems really kind of silly to have to do this much paper work when your in the middle of fighting a war but what are you going to do.
You know I really thought that after we booted the Brotherhood out of Helios 1 that would have laid to rest any talk of who was better but I guess not. To be honest though we did suffer a lot of casulties against them, we lost about ten men for every one of their paladins, but at the end of the day we came out on top. Now some people are saying that if the entire Brotherhood came down on us then we would lose, but let me remind you of this, even though the paladins we fought at Helios were only a fraction of the Brotherhood's soldiers, they barely even saw the tip of the iceberg of what the NCR can put out on the field when we have to.
Honestly all it would really even take to bring down someone wearing T51-b power armor is a Anti Material Rifle with armor piercing rounds, the majority of our veterans can tak care of that no problem. If there were to be another war with the Brotherhood dont think for a second we wouldn't take a lot of hits, but dont doubt the power of the bear either once it gets riled up. Look at the inscription on the side of my revolver, against all tyrant's, thats a slogan we take very seriously. And if the Brotherhood tries to start another fight again we will be there, to put them down if necessary.

As soon as the NCR military came into DC with their massive numbers, Lyons would prolly pull every soldier he got into the DC ruins..

Good luck to the NCR soldiers fighting thick Urban warfare in DC against the BOS with tesla armor , hellfire armor and plasma based weapons. Seriously ... no matter wht number you have, You just cannot fight Lyons BOS soldiers in their own backyard in DC... It would be a slaughter house...