My friend and I always have these huge arguments over who would win in a giant war between the NCR and BoS. I've finally decided to stop arguing and let the masses speak. What do you think?

BoS would definetely hold there ground for a few weeks, maybe months, but over all, NCR would win. Larger numbers will almost always win over fancy tech.

Not necessarily.. Remember Archimedes II? The NCR didn't know what hit them.. :spotted owl:

I don't think he meant it would be a crushing victory. The fact is the brother hood has advanced training and superior tech. My take is that if it were NCR troopers against brotherhood paladins and knights either the BoS would probably run out of MFCs or kill them all. But if you factor in all of the rangers, veteran rangers, elite rangers, first recon and the heavy troopers they would go down. Not fast or gracefully, but evenutally they would fall.

I mean legitimately, not a walking deity that's game breaking. :facepalm:

:whistling:

Well, according to the Battle of Helios One the BoS were drastically outnumbered yet still held their own for some time. I'm quite sure rangers and other elite soldiers of the NCR were present at the battle and still only managed to pull off a Pyrrhic victory. Safe to say if the Brotherhood had half as many men they would've obliterated the NCR, but that's mere speculation.

The thing is there are almost as many rangers alone as there are paladins. Plus first recon and heavy troopers, and then the NCR troopers. The brotherhood would still be even more out numbered than helios 1. Plus the battle at Helios 1 unfortunately wiped out over half the Mojave chapter of the brotherhood.

True, though my point was if the BoS had even half as many Paladin's as the NCR has men in general, the outcome of the battle would've been different. I believe the odds stated by the NCR officer posted in front of the Helios One were 20 to 1, or something like that. Pretty insane that any of them managed to make it out alive. Not to mention that even the rangers, the best the NCR has to offer and even heavy troopers joined the military at what, age 16? The BoS trains their members from birth or childhood typically, meaning they've had years of extra conditioning and training.

Your points are valid. But this thread is what if all of the NCR and BoS were in a war with the forces they have. And while the rangers are trained from a much older age but the rangers and other see actual combat and that's how they gain there skill. The paladins on the other hand don't see real combat and are trained in vi pods

Also depends on the level of heavy artillery that the NCR have available. T51b or not, if you get hit by an AA battery jury rigged for ground 2 ground combat then you're but canned soup.

Ah, also a valid point. I didn't really consider the difference between a VR simulation and actual combat. If it's all the NCR forces they have available that's a different story. I'd have to concede that shear numbers would eventually win out in the end (they always do).

Well said. You were a worthy opponent. I tip my hat to you.

And I tip my hat to you as well, fine sir. I rather like how discussions on these forums don't seem to degenerate into "NO I'M RIGHT!" matches .

NCR vs Western Brotherhood. NCR = Winner.

Quote Gloria Van Graff: "The NCR is huge now, were talking on a scale difficult to imagine." "My family has enough men and weapons to field a small army, but the NCR can field a really really big army."

The NCR and BoS are at war. And the NCR is winning.

According to Van Buren and New Vegas, looks like NCR.

I am thinking the War is over. I listened to president Kimball's speech at the Dam. Listing to all the things that soldier's family went through before coming to the Mojave and one of the things was "The Brotherhood War." Sounds like past tense to me. Also seeing as how no one in the NCR until that speech talks about the war back west. Or how it played out. I doubt it was a total victory for NCR over the Brotherhood. The devs would not just kill off the Brotherhood without telling us.

Still NCR seems to be the winner of the war. Not that it was or is a cakewalk seening as how NCR's economy is hurting.

But NCR won the battle because of numbers just like martyr said.

edit ohhhh this must be one of the 12 bos scenarios.

How about the American revolution or the war of 1812

But there's also no indication that there is a end to hostilities between the NCR or BoS either, the BoS did take a heavy beating as a result of the war and retreated into even more seclusion. The Battle of Helios One is a example that both sides still take arms against each other.

But the NCR didn't cakewalk it, the BoS initially had the upper hand but as you mentioned with the Van Graff quote; "My family has enough men and weapons to field a small army, but the NCR can field a really really big army."

Logistics.

The Brits had to ship everything overseas. The Americans were on their home turf.

In any case, irrelevant since we know not of the logistical goings-on for either side during the BoS/NCR war.

Since it takes place on both of thier home terf, one would think it would be a fight to the death. If brotherhood uses guerrilla warfare tactics it could last for decades.

Bos is very well equiped....... a hit and run from bos would be deadly.

NCR seems to be well enough equiped to take the pain and win through. As long as NCR people support the cause NCR should be victorious, but if the body count gets so high that the people notice, and think it is not worth it the NCR may let the Bos go.

I think it ends with either an NCR utter victory after decades and a very high body count, or NCR just stops going after bos and lets them go. Then small skirmishes would continue on unless the bos leaves.

Under no circumstances do I see the bos getting an utter victory over NCR.

There could be a chance for a truce, but the bos are the ones that would be signing a total and unconditional surrender.

We only know that the Mojave Chapter took a beating and went underground. They stayed there due to leadership issues. IMO losing that battle and losing Elijah shocked the chapter, paralyzing them.

Lore says the brotherhood have a state within NCR. NCR was forced to change from gold coins to money because of the Brotherhood war. BoS were hitting the gold shipments so people were not getting paid. If all the brotherhood back west which are all over california are in holes somewhere then NCR would be back to using gold coins.

Brotherhood and NCR have not always been enemies. It was not till they came across the Hoover Dam did things go bad. Fallout 2 there is a brotherhood bunker in NCR's capital. Brotherhood used to trade openly with outside caravans. I don't see it as a fight to the death. If someone on either side wanted peace I am sure they would be willing to talk. It would not be something like the war between NCR and Legion.

That was back when lining up 60 yards away from each other and blasting away was gentlemanly. The U.S. colonists lost most gentlemanly battles to the British. The British were too gentlemanly to change their tactics. They were also highly over confidant, so they marched around to the beat of drums out in the wide open. Ambush after ambush wore then down. Washington even attacked on Christmas eve ( if my memory serves ) in the dark of night murdering British officers. The famous painting of him in a boat being rowed across an ice filled river commemorates that night.

The British would not stoop to the level of the savage colonists and went home.

Thing about bos vs NCR is......................... they are home.