Exactly, power armor should not be lootable, it in intricately linked to the wearer, and it couldnt be looted in the originals, and so it shouldnt be lootable now, but it should still be as strong as the originals.

Power Armor is a whole another story.

When i fought Orion it was challenging and he is what a BoS paladin should be.

If they made them as strong as the NCR Veteran Rangers it'd be perfect - 295hp, 24 DT, 30% DR at level 35.

By comparison BoS Paladins have 125hp and 31 DT and apparently are always level 11?

I'm of two minds on this.

1.) Of course it's easy to decimate the BoS with a Gauss Rifle, it's a freaking Gauss Rifle.

2.) The Paladins are only level 10, seriously Obsidian that is absurd. They should be 25 easy. I think the nerf to the BoS is also related to the Power Armor nerf, what should be walking tanks are oversized tin cans who can't move very fast in their stuffy armor so pelting them with anything less than a top tier weapon is far more viable than it should be, they should mix up the formula a bit by adding 30-40 DR to Power Armor or negating the bleed through damage wholesale.

They should be harder than vet rangers. They are supposed to be the within best of the best of the best. I ve never shot a bos guy, but if I must and they were scrubs I d be pissed.

They just really need to rethink how they make hard NPCs for future fo. Vet Rangers are not real hard. Their ability to dish out damage is the problem. A ver ranger should have 95-100 in guns, and over 300hp. A player should not be able to just walk in a Ranger camp with vets and kill everyone. They should encourage thinking by making the best of the best seem more like the best of the best.

It's been a long time since the days of the BOS at it's peak. Constant warfare and expansion from trials has really put the pressure on them. Now there are entire nations starting to form. I doubt they have the skill, training, or shock factor they did when they were initially founded. Now energy weapons and technology are a trade. They refuse to adapt, they will die. Now they have no technological edge but the armor, their training is being surpassed by other nations, and people don't take them seriously any more. It's because they refuse to adapt to a large scale operation, or change their mandate. I predict they will get weaker and weaker until they reform or die off completely. The only thing left a bad ideology. Only their armor will remain, for those more worthy to take and use.

I think what's happening to the BOS makes perfect sense. Wonder if they'll finally be gone the way of the dodo in the next game, which would be a good riddance from me.

Never understand all the hatred againts BoS. Wanting them gone is like wanting Deathclaws or Super Mutants gone. They're something from the old-world which other factions can't get rid off. However because of their philosophy they'll never become as powerfull as any major faction yet they will(should) always be a force to reckoned with.

BoS is best equiped and best trained faction, why people refuse that fact? They're losing because while their numbers diminished other factions got better armed and organised.

I'm pretty sure they did so because the game demands that you kill them and they wanted people who weren't combat experts to have a shot.

Well all the evidence of the new games points to their death. I'm sorry if you can't accept the future they have in store for them.

You mean a bunch of has-beens clutching uselessly to the remnants of the old world should be more formidable than people who actually thrive in the new world?

Puh-lease. :shakehead:

(And for the record, I've loved the BOS since Fallout 1, but it's clear their time in the sun is long gone)

Power armor is just slightly more shiny metal armor which is a shambles you should literally be a walking tank .

Only evidence is in NW and that evidence mainly focused on Mojave Chapter so we don't know about it and Van Buren is NOT canon. It's not about accepting bytheway(that may be a bad anology but BoS is equivelant of Dragon Lances mages they always exist, they're a powefull faction to consider but thats all about it. Their nature and numbers puts them into a status quo. I don't want them to rule to America or another nonsense all i'm saying they're part of the Fallout universe which should stay.

Also this topic isn't about BoS-NCR war. It's about as a npc why BoS paladins are so weak.

Many years have passed since the events of Fallout 1 and in the time between F2 and F:NV, the western Brotherhood has suffered very heavy losses. Because they are, by nature, insular, replacing their fallen veterans is difficult. Most of the Mojave chapter's paladins are relatively inexperienced. There isn't an army of Rhombuses down there.

EDIT: I've attacked the HV bunker many times and while it's certainly possible to defeat the BoS forces inside, considering that many of the guys inside are carrying Gauss Rifles, the only way you'd get through it "without a scratch" would be to avoid ever being hit. That's really only possible if you're a) attacking from stealth b ) jumping opponents as they come around corners (which doesn't have anything to do with their stats, it's just a tactical advantage) or c) always staying out of line of sight. HV defenders carrying Gauss Rifles, even their normal stats, will still chomp through any armor you're wearing.

If you want them to have a ton of HP so they can be bullet sponges even if you drill them with a Gauss Rifle or AMR, that's something that folks consistently seem to hate in enemies. Personally, I disliked the HP slugfests in the F1/F2 late game where players/opponents had weapons that could barely make a dent through the high combo DR/DT and you were mostly waiting for eye crits to score armor-negating x3 damage blows for 200+ points. It did make those enemies seem tough but it didn't seem like I had to do anything tactically wise to beat them.

Let's not OVER-sell the BOS. The BOS have Power Armor and energy guns, but it's part of what makes their story important that they're NOT all-powerful. The fact that conventional guns like Assault Rifles and even Shotguns can penetrate power armor is actually an in-story theme. They can't fight the Enclave and if they DID try to bring order to the Wasteland, they'd probably get slaughtered.

I question making them better than Rangers as well (in terms of training), since all Brotherhood warriors are Paladins while the Rangers are the best of an army.

Still, when you gun down the Followers' murderers, it should be an ACCOMPLISHMENT. The fact my Courier killed 4 BOS paladins should be a big issue.

I just want at least one suit of Power Armor to act the way it did in Fallout 2.

The Veteran Rangers in the Mojave Wasteland are also the best of a victorious army that are moved in late in the game. The Mojave Paladins are by no means the concentrated elite of the western BoS.

Think of it this way: the strength, organization, and composition of the SS in Germany, 1939 vs. late 1944. Not to draw political parallels, of course, but the BoS are not riding high in F:NV. Their Michael Wittmans are long gone.


Why? I don't remember BoS Paladins being immortal in F1/F2, just tough. Heck, you wipe out an entire base full of Enclavers in APA in F2.

Thanks, J.E!



Very true.

I guess I have a bit of the BOS really devoted fan in me as well.

They get effectively treated as the "Jedi" of the setting, I suppose.

You expect one going down will be epic.

They could at least do that with a select few Paladins, like the ones with names or an elite unit like Lyon's Pride and Enclave Sigma. Some NPC's do come with perks though. Veteran Rangers have a perk called "Ranger Toughness" I believe, which increases their HP.

Reilly and Sarah Lyons leveling up with you nicely handles, "do not mess with these people" doesn't it?

True and true but even a veteran paladin like Hardin has the same stats. I'm not asking them to be god like. However high damage rifles kills them with one head-shot, also they're very weak againts critical hits. I'm still thinking at least some, if not all, of the Paladins should have 250-300 hp. They should be more than regular troops with good equipment. Even after that a lvl 20 PC will able to take them down in 3 head-shot... Hell at level 18 i just kill Deathclaws for fun(thx for the latest patch bytheway Gatling Laser is a beast now )if it's a problem that PC gets too powerfull it's an another topic.

Maybe i couldn't expressed myself good due to my poor English; i don't want them to be immortal juggernauts but something like: "BoS equivalent of NCR Vet-Rangers(with better equipment of course ).

I have no problem with current NCR-BoS war; it's logical that NCR has the edge and BoS should learn they can't just get out their bunker, vaporize every tribal then go back their cave anymore. Yet making them level 11 with 60 EW... It felt the same way when F3 reduced super-mutants to regular ogres

Co-signed. :clap: :trophy:

Well now i'm sure it's an oversight or Jawyer just hates BoS :

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/NCR_heavy_trooper

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Paladin_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)

"BoS Paladins"
Whatever you were claiming, J.E. Sawyer just dismissed it.

I guess the problem is that NCR rangers have the same amount of DT as Paladins, and their weapons are just as powerful.
I think the Brotherhood's weakness should be the lack of numbers, not the fact that my player has access to armor and weapons that are just as powerful as theirs.

And we defeated the Enclave because they let a tribal wander into their base and take the best amor and weapons in the wasteland and walk back out. Not exacly an elite military organization.

Same goes for the Legion too: they never stand a change againts NCR soldiers and maybe i'm wrong but as the game progress NCR deploys Heavy Troopers and Rangers yet i don't see random high level Legion soldiers and even those are very weak compared to NCR troopers, rangers etc.

What difficulty were you on? :huh: