[RELz] BOSS - Better Oblivion Sorting Software : IV - Oblivion

» Fri May 13, 2011 6:08 pm

I don't think backslashes count for comment lines in the userlist, I switched to // for that following the convention I'm familiar with. As for the 'default', I recall putting such a file up on GC a couple of months ago while user rules were in their infancy, it looks like you somehow got that file (notice the reference to the RTF readme, which no longer exists).

As for DEP, if that were a cause, then I'd also be getting it. As it is, it could be a symptom (DEP preventing BOSS doing stupid stuff, making it crash), but it doesn't stop BOSS trying to do stupid stuff, which is the problem.

EDIT: I get a crash when using a backslash to start a line - or have any line without a colon in it that doesn't begin with //. I've fixed that, see your PMs for a test fix.

I've removed the userlist, and used the new file you sent me: BOSS now works GREAT! Thank you (all) so much for your swift attention. I can't rate this utility high enough. Thank you again.

» Fri May 13, 2011 7:12 pm

A lot of the armors http://www.tesnexus.com/modules/members/index.php?id=813611 conflict with mods like Better Cities. I tried out the Gee one and it wasn't on the list from last week. If you load them before Better Cities you'll get the chests and BC works. If you have them in the most recent update I apologize for bringing it up. Going to update the master list now.

Edit: I see there is a BC compatible file. Maybe post a suggestion to use that if any of those come up in the load list.

» Sat May 14, 2011 4:51 am

Unknown mods:

Pose and animation mods
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=33100
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25704

Items S
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35436

Race additions (+ hair + eyes etc)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35272
% {{BASH:NpcFaces,Hair,Eyes,Graphics,R.Description}}

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=32528
% {{BASH:NpcFaces,Hair,Eyes}}

Companions
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=32585
% {{BASH:Graphics,NpcFaces}}

» Fri May 13, 2011 7:15 pm

Glad to see that fixed it, Hickory.

I think we're getting close to the release of 1.62, which will be a stable release (since it's mostly a refinement of 1.61). I'm waiting on confirmation that the Fallout: New Vegas support works, and the same for the newly added ability to insert mods into groups using user rules. I think I also want to wait for the addition of logging options to make debugging easier. Hopefully that should all be confirmed/done soon.

» Fri May 13, 2011 8:23 pm

Glad to see that fixed it, Hickory.

I think we're getting close to the release of 1.62, which will be a stable release (since it's mostly a refinement of 1.61). I'm waiting on confirmation that the Fallout: New Vegas support works, and the same for the newly added ability to insert mods into groups using user rules. I think I also want to wait for the addition of logging options to make debugging easier. Hopefully that should all be confirmed/done soon.

Cool. Looking forward to the new release.

On a themed note, I have just been reading the User Rules ReadMe and it seems to me that one cannot add a rule UNLESS both mods in the rule are installed. What if one wants to place a personal mod after a mod that's already in the masterlist but not installed? The reasoning for this is that it's much simpler to order personal mods etc. via a visible masterlist, rather than to have to keep updating the userlist as and when your installed mods change -- if you uninstall a mod that a rule relies on, the rule would no longer work, correct?

» Sat May 14, 2011 3:24 am

I'm mobile, so this will be brief. Yes, rules will only be applied if the mod(s) it references is/are present. This is for performance reasons more than anything, it takes forever to search the whole masterlist for mods, but a lot less time to do the same for only the mods you have installed. If someone comes up with a magical way to do it with less of a performance hit, it could well change. In any case, the ability to insert mods into the top or bottom of groups should help alleviate the restriction.

» Sat May 14, 2011 5:59 am

In any case, the ability to insert mods into the top or bottom of groups should help alleviate the restriction.

Right, thanks.

» Sat May 14, 2011 5:04 am

Unknown mod file: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.detail&id=3099

Unknown mod file: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.detail&id=3099

-----

Unknown mod file: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.detail&id=5399

This mod requires Midas Magic (at least version 0.980)

» Sat May 14, 2011 5:49 am

I am currently fairly pleased with myself, because I figured out how to get userlist rules to sort mods relative to mods that are not installed, without having a big performance hit.

It works quite well too, by my testing. You still need to have the mod you're sorting installed, simply because there's no point having the rule otherwise, but this makes things easier. The mod you're sorting relative to must be in the masterlist if you don't have it installed, as again, it makes no sense otherwise.

Looks like 1.62 will be another beta release, since this is a fairly big feature change. Now, I have a readme to rewrite...

» Sat May 14, 2011 2:08 am

I am currently fairly pleased with myself, because I figured out how to get userlist rules to sort mods relative to mods that are not installed, without having a big performance hit.

It works quite well too, by my testing. You still need to have the mod you're sorting installed, simply because there's no point having the rule otherwise, but this makes things easier. The mod you're sorting relative to must be in the masterlist if you don't have it installed, as again, it makes no sense otherwise.

Looks like 1.62 will be another beta release, since this is a fairly big feature change. Now, I have a readme to rewrite...

That sounds awesome. You deserve to be pleased with yourself. Well done!

» Sat May 14, 2011 7:34 am

I am currently fairly pleased with myself, because I figured out how to get userlist rules to sort mods relative to mods that are not installed, without having a big performance hit.

Great news - also means that BOMM created Userlist will work without any changes (mods being sorted that do not exist will simply be ignored). Pleased for you being pleased and pleased for me because I have been waiting for WB to stabalise before switching to the new version of BOSS

Many thanks for the hard work and responsiveness - very much appreciated!

» Fri May 13, 2011 11:50 pm

Whew! ROM is finally ready for some masterlist love. There are a bunch of patch mods, so I tried to save you some time by making a patch for the masterlist:

Spoiler

Index: masterlist.txt===================================================================--- masterlist.txt      (revision 1776)+++ masterlist.txt      (working copy)@@ -9064,6 +9064,22 @@ RavDCPOD.esp \EndGroup\\ +\BeginGroup\: ROM+\----------------------+ROM Revised Oblivion Mod.esp+% {{BASH:Actors.ACBS,Actors.AIData,Actors.AIPackages,Actors.CombatStyle,Actors.Spells,Actors.Stats,Delev,Factions,Graphics,Invent,Names,R.ChangeSpells,R.Description,R.Relations,R.Skills,Relations,Relev,Scripts,Sound,SpellStats,Stats}}+ROM Patch - Knights.esp+% {{BASH:Actors.ACBS,Actors.Stats,Delev,SpellStats,Stats}}+ROM Patch - MMM.esp+% {{BASH:Actors.Stats,Factions,Names,Scripts,Stats}}+ROM Patch - MMM H&C.esp+% {{BASH:Actors.Stats,Factions,Names,Scripts,Stats}}+ROM Patch - Armamentarium.esp+% {{BASH:Stats}}+ROM Patch - Bobs Armory.esp+% {{BASH:Stats}}+\EndGroup\\+ \BeginGroup\: Quests and Locations 3 \---------------------- @@ -11627,6 +11643,8 @@ Arks Tutorial Terminator.esp Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp % {{BASH:Relations,Invent}}+ROM Patch - Alternative Start.esp+% {{BASH:Scripts}} SkipTutor.esp Skip Tutorial.esp ? Old, update to version 2+.@@ -15249,6 +15267,9 @@  Portrait Painter for Better Cities.esp +ROM Patch - Better Cities.esp+% {{BASH:Stats}}+ HTS.esp OCC-HTS-Patch.esp HTS_getwet.esp@@ -16181,4 +16202,4 @@ TWMP_Tamriel_Ingame_ Map.esp  \EndGroup\\-\EndGroup\\\ No newline at end of file+\EndGroup\\

Thanks!

» Fri May 13, 2011 10:41 pm

Whew! ROM is finally ready for some masterlist love. There are a bunch of patch mods, so I tried to save you some time by making a patch for the masterlist:

Spoiler

Index: masterlist.txt===================================================================--- masterlist.txt      (revision 1776)+++ masterlist.txt      (working copy)@@ -9064,6 +9064,22 @@ RavDCPOD.esp \EndGroup\\ +\BeginGroup\: ROM+\----------------------+ROM Revised Oblivion Mod.esp+% {{BASH:Actors.ACBS,Actors.AIData,Actors.AIPackages,Actors.CombatStyle,Actors.Spells,Actors.Stats,Delev,Factions,Graphics,Invent,Names,R.ChangeSpells,R.Description,R.Relations,R.Skills,Relations,Relev,Scripts,Sound,SpellStats,Stats}}+ROM Patch - Knights.esp+% {{BASH:Actors.ACBS,Actors.Stats,Delev,SpellStats,Stats}}+ROM Patch - MMM.esp+% {{BASH:Actors.Stats,Factions,Names,Scripts,Stats}}+ROM Patch - MMM H&C.esp+% {{BASH:Actors.Stats,Factions,Names,Scripts,Stats}}+ROM Patch - Armamentarium.esp+% {{BASH:Stats}}+ROM Patch - Bobs Armory.esp+% {{BASH:Stats}}+\EndGroup\\+ \BeginGroup\: Quests and Locations 3 \---------------------- @@ -11627,6 +11643,8 @@ Arks Tutorial Terminator.esp Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp % {{BASH:Relations,Invent}}+ROM Patch - Alternative Start.esp+% {{BASH:Scripts}} SkipTutor.esp Skip Tutorial.esp ? Old, update to version 2+.@@ -15249,6 +15267,9 @@  Portrait Painter for Better Cities.esp +ROM Patch - Better Cities.esp+% {{BASH:Stats}}+ HTS.esp OCC-HTS-Patch.esp HTS_getwet.esp@@ -16181,4 +16202,4 @@ TWMP_Tamriel_Ingame_ Map.esp  \EndGroup\\-\EndGroup\\\ No newline at end of file+\EndGroup\\

Thanks!

Applied.

» Sat May 14, 2011 11:02 am

Hello all,

First, please forgive if this has already been asked before.

I've done an extensive TES4Edit error check, and "fixed" quite a bit of Bash tags on my mods to circumvent potential issues.

I would like to share these with you, and appreciate your opinion on the following suggested changes :

Add BASH tags to the following

Better Cities Full.esp
% {{BASH:Actors.AIPackages}}
Better Cities Full - B&M Edition.esp
% {{BASH:Actors.AIPackages}}

-> motivation : TES4Edit detects AI packages in both of these files that could get ignored otherwise (depending on load order) by the Bash Patch merge

Unholy Darkness.esp
% {{BASH:Eyes}}

-> motivation : TES4Edit detects vampire eyes that could get ignored otherwise (depending on load order) by the Bash Patch merge

HeartoftheDead.esp
% {{BASH:Hair,Actors.AIPackages}}

-> motivation : TES4Edit detects AI packages that could get ignored otherwise (depending on load order) by the Bash Patch merge
Add to the masterlist file

(just under)
\BeginGroup\: Better Cities
\-------------
UchainBeast.esp
% {{BASH:C.Water}}

-> motivation : http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34346 adds a large chunk of geometry in and around Bravil, that doesn't get merged by Bash without this tag, generating messy double meshes.
Change position in the masterlist file

(more to the end of the file, after other overhauls, like OOO)
MOBS.esp
% {{BASH:NoMerge,Stats}}
? Not need if you use MOBS SI.esp
MOBS SI.esp
% {{BASH:NoMerge,Stats}}
MOBS Optional Combat Settings.esp
MOBS SI Optional Combat Settings.esp

-> motivation : What is the rationale behind keeping MOBS before OOO (or other overhauls) in the load order ? It would be nice to be able to keep OOO, but with MOBS weapon/ammo changes.

» Fri May 13, 2011 9:40 pm

[*]Add to the masterlist file

(just under)
\BeginGroup\: Better Cities
\-------------
UchainBeast.esp
% {{BASH:C.Water}}

-> motivation : http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34346 adds a large chunk of geometry in and around Bravil, that doesn't get merged by Bash without this tag, generating messy double meshes.

[*]Change position in the masterlist file

(more to the end of the file, after other overhauls, like OOO)
MOBS.esp
% {{BASH:NoMerge,Stats}}
? Not need if you use MOBS SI.esp
MOBS SI.esp
% {{BASH:NoMerge,Stats}}
MOBS Optional Combat Settings.esp
MOBS SI Optional Combat Settings.esp

-> motivation : What is the rationale behind keeping MOBS before OOO (or other overhauls) in the load order ? It would be nice to be able to keep OOO, but with MOBS weapon/ammo changes.

[/list]

Not sure about these two: how does adding C.Water to UchainBeast.esp have anything to do with landscape changes (I presume that's what you mean by geometry)? C.Water just imports cell water height, nothing else.

As for MOBS, it's tagged with Stats so the changes to weapons and ammo get preserved even when other mods override it, but it's a moot point anyway, since you're supposed to use OMOBS with OOO, which does load after OOO.

» Sat May 14, 2011 10:47 am

Better Cities Full.esp
% {{BASH:Actors.AIPackages}}
Better Cities Full - B&M Edition.esp
% {{BASH:Actors.AIPackages}}

The Description field of this mod has a typo, which if you correct has bash tags for Water and AIPackages - if it is included in BOSS, it will be overriden by the ESP's description tag - so until it is corrected, you need to fix this manually

» Sat May 14, 2011 7:56 am

Thank you for your quick reply.

Yes, that is what I mean. I just would like to get the mod to be included in the "Import Cells" of the Bash patch, to be overriden by the Better city geometry. Otherwise, I get ugly double meshes in Bravil.
I am sorry if this is not the correct tag.

About MOBS, I didn't know about OMOBS. If it loads after OOO, it suits me perfectly fine. I will switch over, and thank you for your suggestion.

Not sure about these two: how does adding C.Water to UchainBeast.esp have anything to do with landscape changes (I presume that's what you mean by geometry)? C.Water just imports cell water height, nothing else.

As for MOBS, it's tagged with Stats so the changes to weapons and ammo get preserved even when other mods override it, but it's a moot point anyway, since you're supposed to use OMOBS with OOO, which does load after OOO.

» Sat May 14, 2011 6:59 am

Got it, and will do.

Thank you very much for your helpful assistance

The Description field of this mod has a typo, which if you correct has bash tags for Water and AIPackages - if it is included in BOSS, it will be overriden by the ESP's description tag - so until it is corrected, you need to fix this manually

» Sat May 14, 2011 5:16 am

I'm thinking to release BOSS 1.62 tonight, if I get the time. Does anyone have any problems with this or reason to delay it?

» Sat May 14, 2011 10:56 am

Nothing I know of that is blocking atm.

» Sat May 14, 2011 8:44 am

I've removed Ancient Ruins - Ayleid Edition.esp from below the UL listing, it was already in place in a more appropriate spot where it's out of the way and won't raise the possibility of water height and cell region issues. Since it alters no landscape cells, it's less prone to conflict where it's at now.

ack the *one* day I don't review teh commit logs and clicked update after making changes... thanks.

A lot of the armors http://www.tesnexus.com/modules/members/index.php?id=813611 conflict with mods like Better Cities. I tried out the Gee one and it wasn't on the list from last week. If you load them before Better Cities you'll get the chests and BC works. If you have them in the most recent update I apologize for bringing it up. Going to update the master list now.

Edit: I see there is a BC compatible file. Maybe post a suggestion to use that if any of those come up in the load list.

sure, quick question first: do you have esp names for these:

Spoiler

SG008 - Gee - http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=32191

SG010 - Attractive - http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=32599

SG011 - Seductive - http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=33407

SG012 - Moonlight - http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=33412

SG010 - Nazca - http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=33438

?... (rather than downloading those on my dialup)

Unknown mods:

added, thanks.

Unknown mod file: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.detail&id=3099

Unknown mod file: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.detail&id=3099

-----

Unknown mod file: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=oblivionmods.detail&id=5399

added, thanks.

The Description field of this mod has a typo, which if you correct has bash tags for Water and AIPackages - if it is included in BOSS, it will be overriden by the ESP's description tag - so until it is corrected, you need to fix this manually

if that is happening something bad is happening... the two sources SHOULD be merged... could you doublecheck?

I'm thinking to release BOSS 1.62 tonight, if I get the time. Does anyone have any problems with this or reason to delay it?

I think it looks good

Pacific

» Sat May 14, 2011 8:53 am

I've been testing the code, and it seems stable. I suggest a slight tweak to the readme, though: since the "level" options to the revert and verbose parameters are themselves optional, the parameter syntax should be:

boss [-hVusnd] [-r [level]] [-v [level]]

» Sat May 14, 2011 1:37 am

if that is happening something bad is happening... the two sources SHOULD be merged... could you doublecheck?

You are quite right - just tried it and it does get merged - although in my view, BOSS should override all tags in the mods ESP description to allow for correcting and removing

» Fri May 13, 2011 10:48 pm

I've been testing the code, and it seems stable. I suggest a slight tweak to the readme, though: since the "level" options to the revert and verbose parameters are themselves optional, the parameter syntax should be:

boss [-hVusnd] [-r [level]] [-v [level]]

Good catch, changing that now. Should level also be enclosed in square brackets in the detail list below?

@ PacificMorrowind: You might want to take note of the changes and additions to the command line parameters for Wrye Bash integration, though I'd imagine that only -u, -s, -r and possibly -n (used to be -V-) should be supported, as the others don't get used much if things work.

» Sat May 14, 2011 1:58 am

Good catch, changing that now. Should level also be enclosed in square brackets in the detail list below?

yeah, probably. is already clear in the detail text that the level value is optional, but it's good to be consistent.

@ PacificMorrowind: You might want to take note of the changes and additions to the command line parameters for Wrye Bash integration, though I'd imagine that only -u, -s, -r and possibly -n (used to be -V-) should be supported, as the others don't get used much if things work.

checking the Wrye Bash code, -u, -s, and -r are already supported. Only -V- would need to get changed to -n. And yeah, -d and -v wouldn't have much use when run from a GUI like Wrye Bash, since you wouldn't be able to see the output anyway. Here's the diff for basher.py:

Spoiler

Index: Mopy/basher.py===================================================================--- Mopy/basher.py      (revision 665)+++ Mopy/basher.py      (working copy)@@ -11691,7 +11691,7 @@             if wx.GetKeyState(83):                 exeArgs += ('-s',) # Silent Mode - BOSS version 1.6+             if wx.GetKeyState(86):-                exeArgs += ('-V-',) # Disable version parsing - BOSS version 1.6++                exeArgs += ('-n',) # Disable version parsing - BOSS version 1.6.2+             progress(0.05,_("Processing... launching BOSS."))             try:                 subprocess.call((exePath.s,) + exeArgs[1:], startupinfo=bosh.startupinfo)