[RELz] BOSS - Better Oblivion Sorting Software : IV - Oblivion

» Sat May 14, 2011 3:28 am

Okay, thank you. Just to be clear, just the tweak options or the import options and race record ones fine to click too? When is it safe to unlick an esp if you've merged something. Like, lets says I merge the Spell Tomes leveled list. Can I unclick the esp or should I only do that with specific directions too?

In general, all import options should be checked unless specifically told not to. Tweaks can be selected at your discretion. Also, in general, any mod that can be merged, should be merged (that is, selected in the "Merge" item while building the bashed patch, but deselected in the main Mods tab). You'll know you did it right if, after you build the bashed patch, all the mods that have green text have a '+' symbol in their checkbox.

» Sat May 14, 2011 1:31 am

In general, all import options should be checked unless specifically told not to. Tweaks can be selected at your discretion. Also, in general, any mod that can be merged, should be merged (that is, selected in the "Merge" item while building the bashed patch, but deselected in the main Mods tab). You'll know you did it right if, after you build the bashed patch, all the mods that have green text have a '+' symbol in their checkbox.

Okay thank you. Two more question and I think I'll have this nailed down. Should I also check all the Replace Form IDs options and is it ever possible or necessary to have a mod deselected when checking off any other aspect of it in the patch besides what the "Merge" option does. Like the example I used earlier, Spell Tomes isn't in my Merge options, but it is in the "Leveled Lists" part. Should I deselect it after rebuilding the patch?

» Fri May 13, 2011 9:47 pm

Ooh.. ugly. I see two possible ways out of this:
1) (you) install windbg from http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/devtools/debugging/default.mspx to extract a backtrace
2) (we) instrument the BOSS code and re-release to narrow down where the crash is happening

Either way, the real problem could end up being in the BOSS code or somewhere in your system (corrupt library?). Since nobody else is having similar issues (speak up if you are), I'm not sure at this point which is more likely.

Ok, I must be dimmer than I thought. I downloaded and installed the MS debugging tools and I see no WinDBG, only performance tools, but I did put a check on all of the common files. The MS help page is no use, it just says start a debugging session: that's where I started hitting my head on the desk. I guess this is not an area for me.

» Sat May 14, 2011 5:03 am

Unknown mod file: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29810

REQUIREMENTS
*************

Latest Oblivion Patch

Shivering Isles Expansion (Required by the Underdark mod)

OBSE v0017 or greater: http://obse.silverlock.org/

Underdark - The Realm of Northdark: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23153

4. Known mods that will conflict with Illi
**********************************************

Duke Patricks Basic Combat Geometry - something in that mod causes permanent damage to Valeria, so I'm sure it will affect Illi as well as he uses Valeria's AI foundation. This results in Illi going into a healing loop. Not sure what the deal is there as I don't run SCA's mods, and this particular mod doesn't seem to be available for download anymore. This was reported and verified by another player using Duke Patrick's Basic Combat Geometry 1.6 and Valeria 2.04.

» Fri May 13, 2011 7:42 pm

Ok, I must be dimmer than I thought. I downloaded and installed the MS debugging tools and I see no WinDBG, only performance tools, but I did put a check on all of the common files. The MS help page is no use, it just says start a debugging session: that's where I started hitting my head on the desk. I guess this is not an area for me.

Not your fault. Debugging on Windows is a pain. I logged http://code.google.com/p/better-oblivion-sorting-software/issues/detail?id=74#c0 on the BOSS dev page that could lead to an alternate resolution.

» Fri May 13, 2011 8:53 pm

I think my earlier request got missed:
Thanks guys!

Arthmoor added that... guess he forgot to mention it here.

Okay thank you. Two more question and I think I'll have this nailed down. Should I also check all the Replace Form IDs options and is it ever possible or necessary to have a mod deselected when checking off any other aspect of it in the patch besides what the "Merge" option does. Like the example I used earlier, Spell Tomes isn't in my Merge options, but it is in the "Leveled Lists" part. Should I deselect it after rebuilding the patch?

only (in general) deselect a mod if it is merged or had a NoMerge tag and all options imported.

Ok, I must be dimmer than I thought. I downloaded and installed the MS debugging tools and I see no WinDBG, only performance tools, but I did put a check on all of the common files. The MS help page is no use, it just says start a debugging session: that's where I started hitting my head on the desk. I guess this is not an area for me.

hmm debuging can be very very challenging and confusing; so no worries.
ah an idea to figure out where it is crashing: did it create a BOSSlog.html? and if so what are the contents?

Unknown mod file: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29810

added, thanks.
Pacific Morrowind

» Sat May 14, 2011 1:55 am

only (in general) deselect a mod if it is merged or had a NoMerge tag and all options imported.

Pacific Morrowind

Okay, thank you all for your help. I'll get this all understood. I'm tired of having to reinstall for mod issues, so I'm trying to comprehend everything so I don't do something stupid this time lol.

» Sat May 14, 2011 3:55 am

hmm debuging can be very very challenging and confusing; so no worries.
ah an idea to figure out where it is crashing: did it create a BOSSlog.html? and if so what are the contents?

There is a BOSSlog.html file in the BOSS folder, but it's totally blank except for the title and copyright.

» Fri May 13, 2011 11:52 pm

There is a BOSSlog.html file in the BOSS folder, but it's totally blank except for the title and copyright.

What are the contents if you run the updater? We can narrow down the problem code using this - no debugging, pah!

» Sat May 14, 2011 4:34 am

Not your fault. Debugging on Windows is a pain. I logged http://code.google.com/p/better-oblivion-sorting-software/issues/detail?id=74#c0 on the BOSS dev page that could lead to an alternate resolution.

Thanks (to the whole team) for your attention on this; BOSS is a must-have for me, and I really would like to be up-to-date.

» Sat May 14, 2011 5:45 am

What are the contents if you run the updater? We can narrow down the problem code using this - no debugging, pah!

THe contents after running the updater are:

Masterlist Update

masterlist.txt updated to revision 1755

Edit: Sorry, forgot to say, and then the very same APPCRASH error.

» Fri May 13, 2011 11:44 pm

THe contents after running the updater are:

Masterlist Update

masterlist.txt updated to revision 1755

OK, so it's failing somewhere while building up an internal list of the mods in your data folder. Good to know (BOSS.cpp: lines 159-177 if others are interested), I'll try to take a look if no-one beats me to it.

» Sat May 14, 2011 6:04 am

New file:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35434, a village mod from Phitt. No compatibility issues reported by Phitt with ULs etc.

» Sat May 14, 2011 12:08 am

Is anyone else suddenly getting all their mods repeated after the load list as unknown and ghosted like this?

Spoiler

Unrecogised Mod Files

Reorder these by hand using your favourite mod ordering utility.

Unknown mod file: Oblivion.esm - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: TR_OoT_Main.esm - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: MathFunctions.esm - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Jog_X_Mod.esm - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: All Natural Base.esm - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Francesco's Optional New Creatures Add-On.esm - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Cobl Main.esm - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: TamRes.esm - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Qarls_Harvest.esm - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: CyrodiilUpgradeResourcePack.esm - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Open Cities Resources.esm - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: BetterMusicSystem.esm - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: CURP_Controller.esm - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Progress.esm - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Oblivifall Master File.esm - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: DLCShiveringIsles-SIpatch-SM Plugin Refurb SI Merged Plugin.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: AmbientTownSounds+DistantChapelBells-Merged Plugin.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: PlaySpecial - OBSE and SoundCommands Required.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: All Natural - Real Lights.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: CampfireBehavior_kuerteeSittableRocks_P1DseeYouSleep_Portable Campsite - Merged Plugin.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Fishing in Cyrodiil_ImprovedSigns_Q - More and Moldy Ingredients v1.1_Qarls Harvest_Qarls Harvest addon Merged Plugin.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: SoT_Holiday+RealDaysAndMonths Merged Plugin.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Enhanced Economy.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: FF_Real_Thirst.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Choices and Consequences.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: kuerteeCleanUp_Streamline 3.1 Merged Plugin.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: DLCHorseArmor.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: DLCMehrunesRazor.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: DLCSpellTomes.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Thieves Arsenal.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: DLCThievesDen.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: DLCThievesDen UnOf Patch + Unoff SSSB patch-Merged.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Francesco's Optional Files.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: OC+COBL Luggage Patch.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Cobl Glue+Cobl Si esp Merged Plugin.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: All Capes Cloaks Clothes Gloves and Robes+Bobs Armory-Merged.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Creatures Alive v1.3.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: PTRoamingNPCs+kuerteeWanderingEncounters Merged Plugin.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: lorecreatures_Subspecies Variety Pack 1 - Canines full version - Merged Plugin.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: TIE.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: TIE+Frans NPC Inventory.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Smarter Bandits.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Cyrodiil transportation network OC.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: OC+CTN Patch.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: TamrielTransportationNetwork.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: BHC_Expanded.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Cyrodiil Training Center.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: (DC) Sutch Reborn.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Sutch Reborn Spawn Patch.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Duke Patricks - Bottle Shoot Archery Practice.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Jagnot- Imperial City Library V1.3.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Kragenir's Death Quest.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: KDQ - Rural Line Additions.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: LetThePeopleDrink.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: NPCs Alive - Beggers.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: NPCs Alive no Beggars Merged Plugin.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Region Revive - Lake Rumare.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: thievery.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: TR_Stirk.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: VaultsofCyrodiil.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Villages1.1.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: za_bankmod.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Knights.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: OCC-KOTN-Patch.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: GuardsofCyrodiilRedux.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: AFK_Weye.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Wellspring Vale.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: ElsweyrAnequina.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: road+bridges.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Feldscar.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Vergayun.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Faregyl.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: xuldarkforest.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: xulStendarrValley.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: xulChorrolHinterland.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: xulBravilBarrowfields.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: xulAncientRedwoods.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: xulArriusCreek.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: xulRollingHills_EV.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: xulImperialIsle.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: xulBlackwoodForest.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: xulAspenWood.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: xulSkingradOutskirts.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: xulSnowdale.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: bartholm.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Fort Akatosh Redux.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Open Cities New Sheoth.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Open Cities Bartholm.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Open Cities Outer Districts.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Open Cities Reborn - Full Merge.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: NRB4+UL-II+LtPD+OCOD Patch.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: NRB4+RR Patch.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Birthsigns Expanded.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: HUD Status Bars.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: GP_Lockpicks.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: haz_ct2_magesguild_teleport.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: haz_ct3_horse_cart.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: haz_ct5_mark_recall.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: haz_ct6_expensive_horses.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Class Advantages.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Oblivifall - Ambiant Dungeon SFX+Closing Time+Let's Talk! esp - Merged Plugin.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Oblivifall - New Classes.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: PersuasionOverhaul.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: ReneerNPCNameCorpse Merged Plugin.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: kuerteeGoldIsAnInventoryItem.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Respawning Varla & Welkynd Stones.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Side's Backpacks.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Soulgem Magic.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: SetsunaDummyTraining+Slof's Dogs+talkwithyourhands2 esp - Merged Plugin.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: kuerteeAlternativesToDeathAndReload.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Quest Award Leveller.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Duke Patricks - Basic Hypothermia.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Duke Patricks - Nosferatu Class Vampires.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Fizzle.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: StealthyAbsorbsAndDrains.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Syc_AtHomeAlchemy_No_Bounty_v2+RshAlchemy+RshAlchemyRecipes Merged Plugin.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Realistic Sneak for NPCs.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: StealthOverhaul.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: ZumbsLockpickingMod - OBSE.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: RenGuardOverhaul.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: kuerteeClothingMatters.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: sycShout+Enhanced Grabbing Merged Plugin.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Willful Magic Resistance Merged Plugin.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Armorer'sKayoAdvantage Merged Plugin.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Duke Patricks - Everyone Or Just Vampires Now Bob And Weave.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: ExperienceBasedTraining.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Intelligence Overhaul-RR.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: nGCD.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: nGCD Oghma Infinium.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Progress Merged Plugins.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: TRAP.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: Really Immersive Messages.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: SPAWN.esp - Ghosted

Unknown mod file: MergedMaps.esp - Ghosted

I looked in my Data folder and I have duplicates of all my esps from the normal load list.

» Fri May 13, 2011 7:14 pm

Is anyone else suddenly getting all their mods repeated after the load list as unknown and ghosted like this?

I looked in my Data folder and I have duplicates of all my esps from the normal load list.

if they are just duplicates, just delete em.
Pacific Morrowind

» Fri May 13, 2011 9:14 pm

New file:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35434, a village mod from Phitt. No compatibility issues reported by Phitt with ULs etc.

Way ahead of you there, it's already in, in the group of mods right before the ULs

» Fri May 13, 2011 8:08 pm

if they are just duplicates, just delete em.
Pacific Morrowind

Weird. They disappeared on their own.

Unknown mod file: BetterInns - Harvest Containers PATCH.esp

http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29333

Works only with Original Harvest Containers. Makes the Inn's Containers work as the others in this mod.

There might be others on this page not in the masterlist too.

» Sat May 14, 2011 12:43 am

Unknown mod:

Items A (?)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35421
? Will conflict with Better Imperial City.esp
? May conflict with mods that alter the exterior of the IC Market District.

Places a chest by a statue in the IC market district.

» Fri May 13, 2011 9:56 pm

@ Hickory: Do you have a userlist.txt in your BOSS folder? Trying to figure out what's causing the crash still.

» Fri May 13, 2011 4:44 pm

Load order suggestions (E-my own exp.; R-author read me):

1. StarX Vanilla Vampires Revised meets Vampire hunting OVB ( http://www.tesnexus....le.php?id=32892 ) R+E
StarX Vanilla Vampires Revised.esp
.
Vampire Hunting - Order Of The Virtuous Blood.esp
.
Starx-OVB Patch.esp

2. DropLitTorchOBSE.esp E
After TIE.esp
P.S.
about TIE+Frans NPC Inventory.esp R
Some note like "Don't Deactivate" is needed

3.Ancient Ruins - Ayleid Edition.esp ( http://www.tesnexus....le.php?id=31734 ) E
After all UL

» Fri May 13, 2011 5:26 pm

@ Hickory: Do you have a userlist.txt in your BOSS folder? Trying to figure out what's causing the crash still.

Yes, but it hasn't got any user content in. Just the default:
\ Custom User Sorting Rules file for Better Oblivion Sorting Software.
\ Define your sorting rules below:
\ See "BOSS - Custom Sorting Rules Readme.rtf" for more information.

Could this issue be related to Windows DEP? I ask because I had an almost identical problem with an Adobe Photoshop plugin. When I added the executable for the plugin to the DEP exclusion list, the problem was solved. Windows will not allow me to add BOSS.exe to that list; it says it must run with DEP, or words to that effect.

Edit (ramblings):
This intrigued me why I could not set DEP exclusion, so I Googled and found an article that stated:
"The reason that DEP cannot be disabled is that the “NXCOMPAT”(Compatible with DEP) flag is set when we build/create the executable. "
I'm sure you guys know all about that, so just ignore this rambling at your whim.

» Fri May 13, 2011 10:34 pm

Yes, but it hasn't got any user content in. Just the default:
\ Custom User Sorting Rules file for Better Oblivion Sorting Software.
\ Define your sorting rules below:
\ See "BOSS - Custom Sorting Rules Readme.rtf" for more information.

I don't think backslashes count for comment lines in the userlist, I switched to // for that following the convention I'm familiar with. As for the 'default', I recall putting such a file up on GC a couple of months ago while user rules were in their infancy, it looks like you somehow got that file (notice the reference to the RTF readme, which no longer exists).

As for DEP, if that were a cause, then I'd also be getting it. As it is, it could be a symptom (DEP preventing BOSS doing stupid stuff, making it crash), but it doesn't stop BOSS trying to do stupid stuff, which is the problem.

EDIT: I get a crash when using a backslash to start a line - or have any line without a colon in it that doesn't begin with //. I've fixed that, see your PMs for a test fix.

» Fri May 13, 2011 11:51 pm

http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29333

added, thanks.

Unknown mod:

Items A (?)
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35421
? Will conflict with Better Imperial City.esp
? May conflict with mods that alter the exterior of the IC Market District.

Places a chest by a statue in the IC market district.

added, thanks.

Load order suggestions (E-my own exp.; R-author read me):

1. StarX Vanilla Vampires Revised meets Vampire hunting OVB ( http://www.tesnexus....le.php?id=32892 ) R+E
StarX Vanilla Vampires Revised.esp
.
Vampire Hunting - Order Of The Virtuous Blood.esp
.
Starx-OVB Patch.esp

2. DropLitTorchOBSE.esp E
After TIE.esp
P.S.
about TIE+Frans NPC Inventory.esp R
Some note like "Don't Deactivate" is needed

3.Ancient Ruins - Ayleid Edition.esp ( http://www.tesnexus....le.php?id=31734 ) E
After all UL

1 already in
2 should be LO independent... does it not work where it is in the masterlist currently?
3 added, thanks.
Pacific Morrowind

» Sat May 14, 2011 7:37 am

added, thanks.

added, thanks.

1 already in
2 should be LO independent... does it not work where it is in the masterlist currently?
3 added, thanks.
Pacific Morrowind

AD 3
You are absolutely right. Two DLT obse plugs work worse than one, imagine

» Fri May 13, 2011 8:26 pm

I've removed Ancient Ruins - Ayleid Edition.esp from below the UL listing, it was already in place in a more appropriate spot where it's out of the way and won't raise the possibility of water height and cell region issues. Since it alters no landscape cells, it's less prone to conflict where it's at now.