So, for the so-called 'boss battles', should the battle be a fps shoot out or should there be a more strategic/puzzle solving aspect to it?
Example: The courier has to fight Three Dog - should they be in a room where you could hack into a a computer to take him out for you easy peasy? Or should it be your guns and twitch reflexes vs. the computer ai? Or should it be a mix - his armour is susceptible to incendiary rounds but not ap or hp? You still have to pump the lead into him, but having the right type of ammo makes for a much shorter battle.
I guess for some battles the bosses are a hybrid of the run n gun and strategic (think Dead Money) but there still exists the bullet sponge baddies.

There should not be bosses. Certain people like Lanius are harder, so he could be considered a boss I guess, but there should be no special ways of defeating him. His stats are his stats. 3 dog should be so weak a few bursts from a Chinese AR would kill him.

They need to make sense, just because someone is a leader does not mean they are better than their soilders.

Lanius makes sense because he is stronger than his soilders. I haven t fought Oliver yet, but if he were even close to as hard as Lanius that would not make sense. He is old and grey and has no armour. His fighting days are behind him.

Bosses are a dumb Idea unless they make sense.

Not every game needs boss fights, but if you were to put them in, I think they should be both. Some people want to puzzle their way through, some people want to show up with an AK47 and spray him all over the walls, and then there's people who will show up, spawn him, run the hell out, set up on a grassy knoll a few hundred yards away, then put a hole in his dome with the biggest sniper rifle they can find.

Run and gun, pull out your biggest baddest gun and pull the trigger till you run out of bullets or the boss goes down.

saying "they're not bosses" is like saying "There are no loot rooms in FO:NV" We all know whatever you call them, they're bosses, loot rooms and dungeons.

And I like that they made non-combat a viable option in FONV. I felt like FO3 forgot that noncombat characters were an important part of the universe, both FO1 and 2 had non-combat resolutions to their "big bad boss" encounter.

Thats why he has 5 veterans or heavy's

Any "boss" should be like any other character you might happen across. Except of course, for his/her load-out.

The pain for any boss fight should come before the fight. Like with Dead Money. All the pain, all the puzzles, all the bull[censored] should come on the way to fight the "boss" because the "boss" is just like any other human. Or mutant. Or ghoul. Whatever, you get the picture. Point is, by the time you reach the boss, it shouldn't be any more of a fight than any other fight in the Mojave (or wherever, because I think this should be the same in every game).

I achieved Day Tripper in less than three hours of play time due to my extreme reliance on strategic engagement.

There are no "bosses" in NV. Aside from maybe Lanius, there is not an enemy in the game that can't be dropped with a single shot. And I bet Lanius could be taken out in a single VATS volley with the proper combination of chems, max charge ammo and YCS. (and a little luck for a pair of crits, with the better crits perk.)

Something I'll have to try now.


These closest thing I can think if to a boss fight, is the pair of Rangers right before you face Oliver.

but some "bad bosses" shouldn t be talked down. Thats [censored] that you could talk Lanius or Eden down. Lanius is a monster that probably eats children. Just look at him. There should no talking down of Lanius, Eden or Autum. You forget that you can talk people down in fo3.

Exactly. Elijah himself was crap, that Gauss rifle he had was pretty badass. Unless you're fighting a super mutant behemoth (which could be possible) what else in the wasteland is THAT powerful. Deathclaws and possibly Legendary creatures. You shouldn't encounter a 5' tall 87yr old woman with 900hp.

This ^^^^^^^ Is my think on how "bosses" should be handled by devs. If they are mean and bad ass make them bad ass if it s and old man he should drop quick.

i be like three dog thts a bad name now die and i just run n gun

So did Fallout 3. You don't have to kill Eden or Autumn.

One of the staples of the fallout series is choice.

You can choose to caveman club your way through the whole game, if that's your style. Or you can sneaky sneak through, or talk your way through everything.


That choice is the central tenant of Fallout.


That said, I wouldn't mind a few more physically difficult bosses, so long as stealth and/or diplomacy remain an option. In fact, there should be fights where the diplomatic solution is the vastly superior option, but if you feel like going guns-a-blazing, that's an option. For instance; a super tough boss with hitpoints for days... But you can convince his army to join your side, so that when the final battle arrives, you have a team on your side.

No boss can match the final boss of Fallout 2, Frank Horrigan, because you have gotten a lot farther than you should have, mutie. But then again you havent met Frank Horrigan either, time to die.

i've always loved boss battles. it gives a sense of finality to an encounter/level, and (for me) adds a certain extra feeling of achievement.

i thought lanius was perfect (he really fit the bill for monster of the east). i never knew you could talk to him lol. i would always start firing as soon as i could see him. but when i found out you could talk him down, i was very disappointed. it seems extremely out of character for him. i could see talking caesar down but not lanius.

oliver was perfect too. he wasn't very strong, but his entourage was very tough. it felt exactly like it should.

there are defnitely 'boss battles' in FNV, and i think they did a great job on them.

When in doubt, use C4 :thumbsup:

Lanius is just called "Monster of the East", when you speak with him you hear there is more to it than simply a brutish barbarian sadist. He's got a reputation, an image. Partially/mostly true, perhaps, but he's still just a man with all that entails. And he is obviously not an idiot either.

One-dimensional characters are boring, I liked that Lanius had some layers to him. That you could peer something beneath all the bravado of the "myth" and rumours about him. (And I'm hoping for the same with Joshua "The Burned Man" in HH)

Same as with Caesar, started as a Follower and became leader of the legion. And the legion itself for that matter. Talking to that trader at the fort about the Legions land to the east revealed that it wasn't all evil, it was layered like all societies are.

Again, one-dimensional = boring crap

While there is something to be said for the final opponent being the toughest, it's easy to overdo it and get opponents like Frank Horrigan from FO2. He wasn't almost impossible like some old-school bosses, however a fight with him could turn into a real slog if you didn't know to bring heavy weaponry. It's true there were ways on the spot to make the fight a bit easier, but he could still be a real pain to kill.

That latter aspect is part of what I consider a 'good' boss fight, since it provides an alternative method for defeating the boss. Unfortunately, all too often said boss has more HP than a concrete bunker with resistances to match, which only serves to artificially lengthen the fight rather than provide any actual added challenge.

While I would prefer to not have traditional 'boss' battles in Fallout games, if they are to be included I would like to see them meet the following criteria, as applicable:

1) The boss him/her self should not have ludicrous amounts of HP or inherent DT/DR/whatever
2) If a military group, the boss's equipment should be the absolute best that faction has to offer
3) The boss should not have attacks that automatically bypass armor unless it is clearly specified that he/she possesses this capability
4) The boss should call for backup, and it should show in short order
5) For non-military/paramilitary factions, the boss should be pretty much normal- here the challenge will come from the guards in the immediate vicinity
6) The boss and his/her guards should use actual tactics in battle rather than engaging in lemming charges against a clearly superior PC. This goes double (or more) for (para)military factions, who would know better to begin with.
7) There should always be a chance to talk the boss down from his/her plan, but it should not be easy. This can include the use of serial Speech checks, such that screwing up along the way may provoke immediate hostilities.
8) If serial Speech checks are used, failing the first one (or two) should not provoke hostilities unless the boss is known to have a short fuse.
9) In all cases, if you pick a fight with the boss's guards, or followers in the vicinity, the boss should turn hostile immediately unless a script requires otherwise (see: Tabitha)

I just have a bad feeling when we meet up with Ulysses he's going to pull some "it is our destiny to fight" crap and have more health points than a deathclaw on med-x.