it's common knowledge that bound weapons, even when perked, simply don't add up the real thing. I can't exactly figure out why. they do the same damage as an unsmithed daedric weapon of the same class, and they scale with 1h perks, so until lvl 40 or 50-something when i get dragon in the level lists, my non-smithing chars should liek the bounds much better. what am i missing?

They are quite nice. When disarmed all you have to do is cast again as long as you have magika.

I think the downsides are that they can't be improved, and can't be enchanted (other than the perked soul-trap.) I feel that the upsides greatly outweigh the downsides, if you're playing a spellsword type (magic/fighter hybrid.) One great plus is that they contribute to a rapid rise in Conjuration, as well as training up the corresponding weapon skill.

I have a character whose only weapon is a bound bow (and her Khajiit claws), and she does fine.

Well, unlike other bound weapons, the bound bow is equivalent to a smithed exquisite daedric bow, with the Mystic Binding perk. I think bound bow is a great spell but Beth dropped the ball by not making the other bound weapons equivalent to a smithed weapon when you take the perk.

Ah, I hadn't realized that. No wonder my Khajiit likes it.

Bound weapons have a lot going for them. Fully perked they: cannot be disarmed by a shout, instantly dispel summoned daedra, instantly turn resurrected minions, captures souls and, in the case of the bow eliminates arrow management. And bound weapons look neat as can be.

That said, there are two primary areas I am unhappy with them. First and most important to me is that they cannot be used for mounted combat. Secondly is that their damage cannot be adjusted by tempering - I find them overpowered in early game and underpowered in later game.

Now, despite all this, my mystic archer's only weapon is her conjured bow. Fortunately, I play on PC and can use the CK and mods to 'fix' both of the above drawbacks. Buffy can shoot her mystic bow from the saddle and its damage gets fine tuned as needed for her level to keep the challenge just where we like.

I've been messing with bound weapons in a couple of characters. Does 1-Handed/Archery improve using them, or just Conjuration?

Only thing I don't like about them is to me they take forever to cast.

I edited my post with a slight correction. You do need the Mystic Binding perk for the bound bow to summon the equivalent of an exquisite daedric bow. Does your Khajiit have that perk?

Yes, in that regard, they act like conventional weapons. If you summon one and use it in combat, it improves both conjuration and the relevant weapon skill. Damage that the bound weapon does depends on your skill with the relevant weapon skill.

You can't conjure a bound shield, can you? Too bad, that would have rounded things off nicely.

For all the bound sword or bound dagger enthusiasts: Have you tried casting with each hand and dual wielding? My current build doesn't melee directly but I believe I tried this ages ago and it does work.

No, not yet. That might be the source of my confusion. I have another character who uses bound swords.

Yes, I have a (rather little-played) secondary character who is an Orc spellsword/conjurer, and who dual-wields bound swords.

I find it a hard way to play, because you can't cast anything else while you're wielding a bound weapon, and if you sheath them, you lose both swords. I found I needed to cast any support spell (like an atronach-summon) first, then the swords, and hope that I didn't need anything else during the fight.

I have dual=wielded bound weapons. One character ran to Solthseim as soon as I could to grab "bound Dagger" and did 2 bound daggers for melee

I have to take back what I posted above. I checked, and the character does have that perk. Also the soul trap perk. (This is what I get for playing multiple characters. )

I think the higher damage from the bound bow is intended. It's an Adept level spell, and it's a lot more expensive to cast than any other bound weapon.

Overall, it's a trade-off in raw damage output for the convenience of never being without a weapon. Plus, I would say that bound weapons of any sort are a decided advantage in the early game.

Sometimes, I wish that RPG devs could create games without the "numbers" being visible. Then, players might choose a weapon based on the character they want to create...and less because of the extra 6 damage this Ebony Warhammer of Will provides over the Orcish Axe of Sparks they've been using for the past few hours.

It's just another example of vanilla Skyrim's poor scaling. Even with the mystic binding perk, a bound sword is only unsmithed daedric quality. That's pretty crappy damage wise when compared to a moderately smithed elven weapon. It's sad that a conjuration expert can't summon a better weapon. There should at least have been a higher level version of the bound sword spell.

I played a character once who used bound swords and it was fine at lower levels but by level 48, the low damage from bound swords as compared to smithed physical weapons (with no smithing perks or looping potions) was quite noticeable and the character eventually gave up using bound swords as a result.

I have to disagree with you here. I don't think a conjured weapon should do anywhere near the damage that a smithed weapon does, and I feel that the bow is the outlier here. I accept its greater damage on the basis that it's a higher-level spell than the others, and because a bow is harder to use as a primary weapon, but I think Bethesda blew it by making the bow so good, not by leaving the other bound weapons weaker.

The issue here is skill balance. The real problem is that "tempering" weapons makes them too good, and the bound bow, being "tempered," shares that characteristic. Consider what happens if you play a warrior who has no smithing skill, and you must rely on the "base" damage of a weapon; compared to that warrior's damage output, the weightless, soultrapping bound sword doesn't look so bad at all. Especially with a high-level summoning spell in the other hand, as befits a Conjurer.

I see your point and agree. With "real" weapons, you get to "improve" them 3 ways: Skill, Perks, and Smithing/Enchantment(s). Magic schools do not get the same ways to improve. At best, you get 1, maybe 2 "better" spells along with skill and perks. Their is no way to smith or enchant a spell

The objections to bound weapons are rooted in a comparison with regular weapons. It's too bad Beth didn't strongly differentiate the bound weapons by making them totally unique as opposed to conjured versions of the real weapons. For example, bound weapons would be things like tridents, spears, darts, and slings. Maybe this is too hard to implement because you'd need new animations or some other technically unique feature, but it would have been cool.

I played a dual bound sword wielding character once and he leveled conjuration like crazy early on. He was also a necromancer Smith in heavy armor. Pretty much kicked butt. I don't have a problem with any deficiencies otherwise why bother with regular weapons if bounds were always better (other than RP or enchanting reasons). Take the good with the bad.

Why would you want to play a warrior who can't maintain his own weapons. I agree the issue is balance. I don't agree Beth did a good job of balancing/scaling the vanilla game. Skyrim's scaling suffers the same scaling problems as Oblivion.

Why shouldn't bound weapons do as much damage as smithed ones? Why should a bound swordsman suddenly get weaker when they hit certain levels.

The high level enemies are scaled around smithed weapons, so if they gimped smithing, they would need to gimp the scaling as well. Might not be a bad thing. I prefer an unleveled world. I don't like characters who get weaker as they level.

Take the good with the bad, no thank you. I'll take mods. I can't stand vanilla Skyrim.

There are other ways of balancing out bound weapons against smithed weapons besides just gimping bound weapons. For one thing, bound weapons cost magicka and need to be recast if you need to do something else with your hands. For another, they can't be enchanted (but can soul trap and dispel). You also can't draw a bound weapon while invisible like you can with a physical weapon. Casting one makes noise unless you have the illusion perk. They didn't need to gimp damage as well. There should be more versions of the bound sword spell with the ability to cast a more powerful version for more magicka. Would have been better that way. Vanilla Skyrim has too few choices and options.

1. Maintain your own weapons? You mean as in "be the best smith in all of Skyrim, and the only one who can improve anything at all"? Something like that?

2. Because they're not smithed weapons. They are temporarily summoned daedra in the form of weapons. And you don't get weaker; the weapons are simply what they are. By the time you get to high level Conjuration, you can summon twin atronachs or permanent thralls; why do you need a high-level bound sword?

3. Yeah, the crafting is way too overpowered. The system, as it exists, practically forces the player to exploit a crafting skill. And, in the process, unique artifacts are trivialized. My Skyrim characters leave high-level enchanted loot in boss chests, because what they made themselves is better, and the stuff is too heavy to bother lugging it out to sell.

Yeah, the smithing skill has all sorts of issues. The mod I use rebalances it and distributes smithed weapons to various NPCs. As for 2, you don't find it a bit odd that you can summon twin dremora lords but can't summon a better sword? Agree with 3.

It's great backup for if you get disarmed, or for low level warrior characters(only for bound sword though, cause bound battleaxe energy cost is too high) cause it's a daedric sword.

I really notice how painful it is when you want to use a healing spell in combat, which is something I usually do.

Also, where is the bound shield?