[WIPz] BRAINS / INSTNCTS : IV - Oblivion

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:15 am

This is unfortunate, this was one of the mods I was really looking forward to. I wish you the best, but I do hope someone else (with permission) will pick up the project because it is extremly promising

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:18 pm

If you can make hostile NPCs and creatures less likely to concentrate solely on summoned minions, and make it either standalone or modular, it'd be a mandatory mod for me. Conjuration is completely broken and that aspect of the game hasn't been touched on by a single mod so far.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:59 am

If you can make hostile NPCs and creatures less likely to concentrate solely on summoned minions, and make it either standalone or modular, it'd be a mandatory mod for me. Conjuration is completely broken and that aspect of the game hasn't been touched on by a single mod so far.

That would be good. I just hope someone else is allowed to pick up this mod.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:37 am

My source files for both mods:

BRAINS: http://www.mediafire.com/?zkg3zymfmed

Finders Keepers: http://www.mediafire.com/?ynzziwyi13j

Here's everything I was working on-It is rather a mess but I do not have time to sort it out. Please do not contact me for help with the code.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:29 am

My source files for both mods:

BRAINS: http://www.mediafire.com/?zkg3zymfmed

Finders Keepers: http://www.mediafire.com/?ynzziwyi13j

Here's everything I was working on-It is rather a mess but I do not have time to sort it out. Please do not contact me for help with the code.

Thank you for releasing those, and for all that work you've done on it. I hope someone can continue this.

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:54 pm

Can someone continue Finders Keepers?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:12 am

Not sure if it has been mentioned already, but could you please fix the annoying issue that NPCs generally attack summons first than the actual connjurer of that summon? Most NPCs spam summons as soon as their summon dies causing the other NPC to attack the summon again. Really stupid if you ask me lol

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:22 pm

Not sure if it has been mentioned already, but could you please fix the annoying issue that NPCs generally attack summons first than the actual connjurer of that summon? Most NPCs spam summons as soon as their summon dies causing the other NPC to attack the summon again. Really stupid if you ask me lol

Agreed. Conjuration is the most overpowered skill in the game by far due to this reason. As the player, you can summon a creature and have all enemies attack that while you stand looking, or firing arrows. When your summoned creature dies, you just summon a new, rinse and repeat.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:01 am

Agreed. Conjuration is the most overpowered skill in the game by far due to this reason. As the player, you can summon a creature and have all enemies attack that while you stand looking, or firing arrows. When your summoned creature dies, you just summon a new, rinse and repeat.

Hehe, that's the main reason my level 15 beat the main quest with FCOM. Those silly balrogs have no idea I'm the one controlling those rather unfortunate summons.

As for how to add it, I just took a quick look at the code and since it already scans all actors for their combat target it wouldn't require much to filter out summons. Especially since GetFollowers does include summons while GetNumFollowers and GetNthFollower don't. So when scanning an actor you also scan their followers and construct a list of summons. Then when checking the combat target of other actors you check it agains the list of summons (or multiple lists). If you find a match you can switch combat from the summon to the caster. Ofcourse it probably won't be that easy and I know I won't be working on it, too little time as it is. Just sharing my thoughts and ideas on the concept.

Anyway, Syclonix, sorry to hear of your RL issues. Hope things get better in the future.

-kyoma

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:49 pm

I've been told that people were waiting on my mods. I'm sorry, but there have been some hard personal issues that have come up in my life lately. I will not be continuing this project. Again my apologies for not letting anyone know.

To be honest, i`ve been watching this thread and would have been VERY surprised if you achieved all that was said here. Giving NPCs an AI as detailed as you said would`ve been wonderful, but it also would`ve been a miracle to do. A lot of people complain about AI, but AI is incredibly hard to do. The Human brain takes these common-sense things for granted and has the processing power of a zillion computers, something a home computer program isn`t going to manage with multiple NPCs no matter how smart you are - I really would`ve been surprised if you managed all of those things in this game.

Still, full marks for ambition. Hope you get the personal issues sorted in a good way.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:04 am

...The Human brain takes these common-sense things for granted and has the processing power of a zillion computers, something a home computer program isn`t going to manage with multiple NPCs no matter how smart you are...

*nods*To approach true human consciousness/AI equivalence will require new major insights in several areas. In the mean time, AFAIK (only theory, nothing practical :embarrass:

) AI consists simply of a set of instructions and conditions for proceeding, so it would therefore seem that there are no barriers to clever implementation.

Just adding one simple, new behavior, like NPCs paying respects to the dead, would be a huge step for OB AI. I guess the problem arises as more instructions are added and the conditions become more complex and intertwined. :talk:

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:06 pm

Sorry to hear about your RL issues, mate. Hope things work out.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:32 am

So has anyone picked this one up??

Are any of the existing mods usable and Stable?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:42 am

Hope someone picks up this - it sounds like an awesome addition to the game.

If you can make hostile NPCs and creatures less likely to concentrate solely on summoned minions, and make it either standalone or modular, it'd be a mandatory mod for me. Conjuration is completely broken and that aspect of the game hasn't been touched on by a single mod so far.

Not sure if it has been mentioned already, but could you please fix the annoying issue that NPCs generally attack summons first than the actual connjurer of that summon? Most NPCs spam summons as soon as their summon dies causing the other NPC to attack the summon again. Really stupid if you ask me lol

Agreed. Conjuration is the most overpowered skill in the game by far due to this reason. As the player, you can summon a creature and have all enemies attack that while you stand looking, or firing arrows. When your summoned creature dies, you just summon a new, rinse and repeat.

Just want to point out that Documn's http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25951 does this.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:35 am

Just want to point out that Documn's http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25951 does this.

That's look interesting. I would have installed it immediately, if not for the fact that I have decided to not use conjuration at all with my current character. But I will download and keep this in case I decide to use conjuration again

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:48 am

Kuertee was going to implement some things from this into a mod, but I don't know if that's happening.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:42 am

Kuertee was going to implement some things from this into a mod, but I don't know if that's happening.

It would be really cool if Kuertee would do that, as I was really looking forward to this mod.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:54 pm

I didn't know progress on this had stopped... hope that your RL goes as smooth as possible syclonix, thanx for the mods that you've completed already

now, someone PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE pick up this project. it's quite possibly the single mod that would make oblivion a hell of a lot better.

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:04 pm

Looks pretty cool.

I dont really enjoy the Stickier Enemies, whats the point of summons if they don't tank?

How about.

High HP/Shielded summons like:

-Daedroth
-Clanfear
-Xivilai

Gain enemy priority

------------------------------------------------

high MP/spell resistance summons like:

-Atronach
-Spider Daedra
-Scamps

Gain secondary priority.

and sence people are going to use Lame and other magika overhauls, it would be wise to accomidate those mods also.

edit: my bad, this mod is dieing. well its a good idea anyway.

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:10 pm

Kuertee was going to implement some things from this into a mod, but I don't know if that's happening.

It would be really cool if Kuertee would do that, as I was really looking forward to this mod.

hey guys!
i have a new unreleased version of NPCs yield.
(the current released version of NPCs yield already has "Creatures flee" behaviour.)
a new feature is called "Fight or fly": actors tries to flee if his evaluated skills are less than 75% of his opponent's skills.

i want to add fleeing into a friendly interior cell and locking the door behind them in later releases.
i'll need to look more closely at other features to see how/where i can build/add them.

» Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:50 pm

Wow, it's been a long time since I looked at this topic. I'm sorry Syclonix that you weren't able to finish this, but no biggie. Always gotta take care of the important stuff first.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:25 pm

It would be really cool if Kuertee would do that, as I was really looking forward to this mod.

...i have a new unreleased version of NPCs yield.
(the current released version of NPCs yield already has "Creatures flee" behaviour.)
a new feature is called "Fight or fly"..

just a heads-up:
here's my update to NPCs yield: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22392
0.65, 3 January 2010:

New feature: Reprogrammed the mod.
It now uses arrays rather than scripted tokens to keep track of actors.
New feature: Fight or fly behaviour.
NPCs will flee from opponents that would be too tough from them.
New feature: To prevent yielded NPCs from attacking again, their dispositions to their opponent are increased.
Previously, "ModDisposition" was used.
In this version, yielded NPCs and their opponents are added to a "special" faction that achieves the same effect.
But with this method, the effects of the mod in NPCs will never persist after the mod is deactivated.
Bug fix: NPCs in these factions will never yield:
Daedra, Kyn, Mythic dawn, Undead.
Note that a clean-save is required to use this version.
See the Upgrade section about clean-saves.

and here's an experience from a game session last night:

also, as an aside to NPCs' inventories are backpacks, i saw something that surprised me last night.

i had just come back from the Kvatch castle quest into the Kvatch camp.
it was night with my visibility low (even with a torch) because my nights from All Natural is set-up to be really dark.
after exiting out of a conversation with an NPC, i noticed some of them start to run.
i thought they were going to attack me due to something i may have inadvertently done.
as i turned back to my intended heading (i was headed for a bed) after keeping my view on an NPC who i thought was going to attack,
i saw an Elder Ogre litterally jump right out of the dark.
it was cool seeing this bright, yellowing, pasty, brute suddenly appear seemingly out of thin air from outside the light range of the camp fire.
all the NPCs were running all over the place: one went into the tent with the load door, while others run up the hill to kvatch and down the hill to the main road.
and the Ogre ignored them all to attack me.

these were the effects of my Wandering encounters mod and my new Fight or fly behaviour in my NPCs yield mod.
i've not seen these mods work as dramatically as that.

note that NPCs running into interiors or through gates is a normal Oblivion behaviour.
when they flee (confidence is low, aggression is high), actors (including creatures) will run towards another actor they are friendly with.

also note, that i don't have the NPCs locking the door behind them feature as what was planned in BRAINS.

hopefully this small mod would satisfy us a little bit until Syclonix gets back to his BRAINS project.
oh and another NPC/AI mod i'll be keeping an eye on (and so should you guys) is QQUIX's expanded actors AI packages.

cheers, all!

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:52 am

just a heads-up:
here's my update to NPCs yield: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22392
0.65, 3 January 2010:

New feature: Reprogrammed the mod.
It now uses arrays rather than scripted tokens to keep track of actors.

Was that done for convenience or otherwise ?

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:30 am

Ohh cool is this a continuation of the Brains project?? Is there more work with finders keepers also?
A mod like this seems so crucial but also a monumental undertaking. As I understand it the AI is very difficult to program.

» Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:18 am

Bumping because this really deserves to be finished.

Another addition in the same spirit would be that your companions ignore minor threats that are reasonably far. It's really annoying when companions throw themselves off cliffs to chase a rat.