So I just got into my first fist fight (say that tent times fast). I have to say, it was kinda fun. I'm really glad that Bethesda built in a mechanic for getting into "fights" with people without being marked as a criminal right off, and without the need to kill them.

Now some have said that Bethesda took out Hand to Hand fighting as a skill because they wanted these brawls to be implemented as they are. Now I don't know if that's true or not. All I know is that I see it like this:

1. The brawls are a lot of fun. I'd rather they stayed in. In fact, I wish I could pick fights with more people.

2. Hand to hand fighting, just generally, is a lot of fun as well. Not only that, but as a perk tree there are tons of things that you could do with the skill. There could be perks to disarm someone, or to disable their armor or shield. There could be a perk to paralyze an enemy. There could even be the usual perks that increase speed and/or damage, or even add a new attack (Such as the Chuck Norris spinning helicopter b.itchslap of doom).

3. A hand to hand combat skill tree could be a lot more interesting, and even replace, some other less interesting trees like, oh I dunno, say lockpicking. Lockpicking doesn't have any perks that get creative until nearly the end, and all the perks along the way do effectively nothing. There's not even a perk that just lets you smash the lock! But hey! We could add that to the H2H skill tree.

4. Lastly, I don't see any reason the two are mutually exclusive. Keeping the bar fights and brawls does not = getting rid of the h2h skill. I don't know.. why Bethesda came to that conclusion honestly. Hand to Hand combat is absolutely something that you can improve, I don't see any reason it's not a skill like any other. Plus, getting better at H2H would allow you to be more of a badass in the barfights and brawls! It's a win win.


So anyway, I don't see why H2H can't be a skill, or why it was taken out in the first place. This (to me) isn't like levitation or mysticism or spears where there is some arguably valid, stated reason for the removal. To me, this just doesn't make sense. Does anyone else see a little more clearly on this issue? Any thoughts?

Getting rid of H2H, Athletics and Acrobatics was a really bad choice. They were my favourite skills back in Oblivion. No more can I specialize into a swifty monk...

Athletics and acrobatics I can kinda see... maybe. At the very most they could have just combined them into a single skill tree. But yes, I have often found myself climbing around the rocky cliffs of Skyrim wishing I could jump just an inch or so higher...

Edit:
A "climb" mechanic or perk that would allow you to scale some rocks just about a foot or so at a time would have been sooo Golden.

Disappointed in the brawls. It's just a chaotic punch-fest that is pretty hard to lose. I'm playing on master difficulty(not sure if difficulty makes a difference in brawls) and have yet to have a fight that I've even come close to losing.

Also don't like how they start; pretty much talk to a guy in a bar, tells you he can fights and you begin. Would be cooler if there was like an underground fighting ring or if some drunk just comes up and start tormenting you until you beat the **** out of him.

The reason why they took out athletics and acrobatics is because even if you are a mage, warrior, or thief.... you all use them. So it would basically get rid of the whole way Beth tried to push the skills. You know how they each have an equal number of skills.

I beat up a guy in Windhelm because he was a racist and he made a racist comment about my character.

Ok, so what value is there to the game for having an equal number of skills for each "archetype?" Does it add to the game to remove these things... or does it just take away?

There's nothing wrong with having a few skill trees that are common to all player types. I can't see how that's justification for removing it, quite the opposite actually. "Oh, everybody uses this one so let's just remove it."

Huh?

I was considering still playing my monk build... and grab the first 2 tiers of HA to grab the gauntlet damage perk for unarmed. Will be interesting to play a punch mage that wears heavy gauntlets.