The Reachmen, sure. The http://epicurius7.deviantart.com/gallery/28944731#/d3asn0m of http://epicurius7.deviantart.com/art/Daggerfall-Sprite-Work-182-11-199531235?q=gallery%3Aepicurius7%2F28944731&qo=3 have always looked like something out of a Renaissance Fair. But you're missing my point. At the moment in Skyrim, they look pretty much identical to other humans, and those other humans all have their own unique look to set them apart. Bretons don't get anything unique, just the same commoner's rags everyone else gets.

Then I guess I am missing your point.

A nord in the Imperial legion looks like a slightly taller imperial. He's taken out of the context of his own culture, and as such, only the physical differences of his race matter, and they all have white skin besides redguards.

So nords, imperials, and bretons are all functionally caucasian humans when you take them outside of the context of their culture. So what? Isn't that missing the point, too? They don't need to be physically different as long as they have underlying differences, especially cultural ones. It's like saying an Irishman and Italian and German are the same thing because they are all white.

A week of crying isnt a huge outcry. We are all still reeling from the loss of Vvarvenfell.. The Skyrim removed greaves didnt last long at all. Anyone who isnt angry about what that "official lore" did to Morrowind probably hasnt heard about it.

I'm not bothered by Morrowind being destroyed - at all.

Yes, I did play morrowind for many many hours.

Without Bretons, people who wanted to play a Mage would be stuck with those snobbish a-holes the Altmer.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Nords, Bretons and Imperials are identical when you take away their culture.

However, each human race, except Bretons, has visual cues in the form of culture, that lets you tell them apart. But Bretons, they blend in so well, there's no way of telling what they are. Hell, Belethor, the Breton running the general store in Whiterun, has a dialogue option that says "what's a Breton doing in Skyrim?". I had no idea he was a Breton.

They had the same problem in Morrowind and Oblivion. All I'm saying is, give them something to set them apart, just like every other race has.

Then maybe what sets them apart from the others is their ability to blend in and assimilate?

One thing I do not quite understand though, is why you are saying that Nords and Imperials can be so readily identified but the Bretons cannot. This makes no logical sense to me. If, in a group of three, which consists of one of each type of human, you can point out the Nord and the Imperial, then how can you fail to point out the Breton?

Or if you are saying that they just look too much LIKE the Nords and Imperials, what's to stop anyone else from saying "The Nords and Imperials look too much like Bretons"?

Everything in this post is wrong. It was already wrong before Morrowind was in development.

The only thing wrong with bretons is that their male voice actors have always been annoying. Squeaky in Morrowind, Lispy in Oblivion, and... that guy who wants to sell you his relatives in Skyrim.

You can tell them apart because while Nords dress like Bretons (generic NPC clothes), they have Nordic accents, while Imperials have the same accent as Bretons (American), but they have Legion armour to set them apart visually.

Bretons need their own accent and their own style of clothing, so they can stop mooching off the other humans. That's all I'm saying.

I always thought the Bretons were a little shorter. You know, Breton - Imperial/Redguard - Nord, in terms of height.

Though shouldn't they be very tall because they are the product of the two tallest races?

You'd think that, but they are one of the shortest races, on par with Bosmer. All I can say is that their genetics are probably more complex than "they're half altmer, half nord!" In fact, by Oblivion standards (just because I have hard numbers, there), they're basically like being an average of 5 feet tall as opposed to 6 feet tall as a nord.

Anyway, visual or especially verbal cues would be fine. A more distinct accent, for one, would be a decent start. Maybe a slightly pointed ear. Anything else, like having a stereotypical shorter/longer nose or the like would probably just get eaten by the character creation system's variables. Just so long as they stay away from those freakish Klingon brow ridges the Dunmer got this time around.

Adding in more distinctness would be a far more preferable to just removing the whole race because they can't be bothered.

Beats me, but they and Wood Elves were the shortest ones in Oblivion as far as I remember.

Aren't they about the same height as an Imperial? Which wouldn't kinda figure. I thought that both Bretons and Imperials descent from the Nedes as do Nords

Once again, beats me. I wasn't speaking in lore terms, but rather what's actually seen in the games. More specifically, Oblivion.

I could not tell the Imperials from the bretons by look at all in Oblivion, and only the men by voice. And yes, I spent a lot of time playing that game, observantly. In Skyrim, I can tell the nords apart by their naming conventions, and if you put a nord and breton next to each other they'd probably have enough height difference for me to say which was which. That's it. I keep thinking I can tell them apart by the voices, but then I'll hear some random elf use the same voice and that'll be out again. I know for sure there's a nord in Whiterun using the voice that I'd otherwise peg as breton. Morrowind was the only one (of the three I've spent any real time in) where I could tell the white human races apart. And now I can't even identify the elves sometimes, because their skin tones are so varied as to be overlapping, and again, voices don't help.


Anyway, this whole thing is silly. Let's assume the bretons could just be harmlessly cut from the series. Why is that a thing they would do?

Besides the fact that bretons are one of the two magic oriented races in the game they are also a part of the lore in the series. Perhaps not the biggest part but what would happen if TES lore would get randomly deleted? One of the series defining features is the vast amount of lore there is so cutting important bits of it would probably be the worst thing that could happen to it.

The Bretons are actually one of the more fleshed out races. They just haven't been given the spotlight yet for further development. They borrow much from Celtic Ireland, medieval France and England. In terms of fantasy parallels, they can be compared to the Brettonnii of Warhammer, the Orlaisians in Dragon Age or the D'Angelines of Kushiel's Legacy. From what I could gather from UESP, fluff, and established lore, they're pretty interesting.

Bretons famous for their flamboyancy, grace, passion, and highly intellect. Though not all of them are mages, most Bretons have some skill in magic, along with art or history as the bardic traditions are just as valued as magical ones. They may have a similar outlook on Nirn like the Altmer do per their negative outlook on Shor/Lorkhan, it's much more romantic. And if their past incarnations are anything to go by, Bretons are a very sensual people. The Temple of Dibella in Daggerfal practices sacred prostitution for example. They're very honor-based as well. Many young nobles often form knightly orders in search of fame and fortune, while their parents and highborn feud for control over the Five Kingdoms of High Rock. This is where their reputation is further tainted as many bretons serve as agents or spies within and without High Rock as it's always embroiled in politics. Their love of pleasure and obsession with beauty doesn't help either.

I think Bretons are pretty distinguishable.

They're much more like elves because of the cross breeding.

I agree with the person who said they're like the French because like the French they're hardly people at all.

Oh, the official forums are always lovely in these times. Spreading the love, eh?

About the bretons, I don't know why you dislike them so much - they're actually my favorite human race, and 2nd favorite of all right next to Dunmer. Why? Precisely because their culture and characteristics aren't as exotique as the other ones, and they're pretty much familiar ground. They provide a perfect point of view for roleplaying a character in a strange province, like Morrowind or Skyrim, or Cyrodill, for that matter (actually, the feel of Cyrodill in Oblivion was sort of what I expected from High Rock, not from a strongly roman-influenced culture).

That said, they're quarter-elves, or the closest thing. Their gals are the prettiest ones. :hubbahubba:

I completely disagree.

Nord chicks are BY FAR the most attractive. There is no debating this. No room for opinion or discussion or disagreement.

It just is.

I agree with the dude arguing for Bretons to be more distinct whether by visual cues, accent or a combination of these things. I had no idea the cook in Markath's keep was a Breton.
They blend in far too much. Give them a more merish look if need be, angular features and slightly slanted ears or whatever.
Just anything to make them look more unique. They're my favourite race and woefully presented.

FU

I like Bretons!

(But I would make them shorter than Imperials and give them more distinctive eyes)