Yeah, the classes themselves were fine, it was just the leveling system & enemies leveling with you that was poorly implemented in Oblivion. They could had worked classes in, in some way and just let you level by using various skills. But they just chucked 'classes' out the window. Along with chunks of the interface & attempting to make it look rustic to the setting.

From what I gathered from his argument, to be a warrior you need a little title that says 'warrior', and that's what makes you bad-ass, the title? And then he complains about having to train to become good at say, being a thief, rather than simply effortlessly becoming one. And replaying the game in a different play-style is also only possible through the use of having a title for the reminder? I don't particularly understand his issues.

yes. If I want to play a pure thief in skyrim I play as a thief only using the appropriate thief skills and done I am a thief. I just dont get a label saying "YOU ARE PLAYING AS A THIEF"! and then the next time I play I could try a mage. Just need some self controll.

It's not only about the title. It's about small details that could have gives depth to an RPGame. It's about the game acknowledging the type of character you chose to be from the very beginning. Skyrim removed choices. This guy/girl is a prisoner for a reason. Wether he is a guilt ridden Thief or an agent that is charming when they can be seen and invisible when in shadow. It's the shaping of your character. Why having questions before character creation it's important for some people. People like small details like that. Removal choosing a class takes away an important RP element in an RPGame. Why should the character's true form begin at level 15? One of the reasons why Michaelpk and many people have to cheat every day they start a new toon or why they want a new game + or respec (which they got), because they find it incredibly boring to start a new game at level 1. Every character in all of the 10 races are exactly the same minus a different skin color and pointy ears. Hell, even Skyrim online has starting classes.

In morrowind and oblvion I could pick a mage class and still play as a warrior. If elder scrolls had a class system like most mmos do where you pick a class and you get set abilitys for that certain class only it would work better imo. But as it stands classes in tes are mostly useless as all spells, weapons, abilitys w/e are avaliable to the player regardless of the class you picked. I never get the feeling of playing a thief more in oblvion that I do in skyrim. and the problem with making mmo class system would be you lose a lot of the freedom people (me included) love in elderscrolls. you still shape your charather in skyrim. only you do so as you play rather than doing so at the beginning.

That is how I feel about the whole thing.

I don't mind a classless Skyrim, but I would prefer if the game let me pick certain skills starting higher (and others lower) to match my character's backstory. It feels a bit weird that my veteran Nord warrior starts out with the same fighting skills as my Nord scholar who never trained with a weapon in his life.

No you can't. From what I read here, it is the most rigid and restrictive thing in the world. So your opinion is that they are useless? Is that a good reason to remove them altogether from existance or could they have been improved, with a custom class of picking all of the skills (since 7 or 5 and 5 aren't enough) with a respect system that could apeace the most indecisive, ADHD, COD crowd? If so, I wish they do that to marriage. It's one of the worst things implemented in Skyrim I wish they remove it completely.

I can see the appeal of being able to start with moderately good specialization, in Oblivion I often picked an Orc, with the Warrior birth sign and Warrior class and that was fun. I just don't think that's any better than picking an Orc and working my way towards Orcish Smithing and putting perks in Heavy Armour, Block and One Handed. And I quite like having the flexibility of later deciding to put a perk or two in speech or archery or just a minor extra skill for some added flavour, and the feeling of finally reaching my goal and having earned my desired title is nice too.

yes i can. I could pick the mage class and still use heavy weapons,armor and you know be a warrior. And yes they are useless because they dont do anyting but say "hey you can only gain levels by using these skills!" if I picked the mages class and got special spells only avaliable to the mage class it would cool because the class would be unique and would be a reason to pick it. Oblvion and skyrim is the same thing only in oblvion you can only level by major skills and you gain a starting bonus in those you picked. that is the only difference and that is why I think they are useless

Damn spelling errors :/

Classes, in my opinion, were pointless.

Not really. At least that's not why I prefer Skyrim's system. It's that arbitrary class selections prior to beginning the game don't add anything to my play experience. I already have in mind what character I want to play, I roleplay that character, and the game reacts to it. To me that's no different than Oblivion, except that I don't have to tick boxes in order to play the game.

I like these ideas a lot! It's important to me to have the freedom to evolve my character on the fly. Sometimes it happens, and sometimes it doesn't, but I need the option. One thing I really liked about Oblvion was how the tutorial prompted you with a certain archetype based on your actions. You could say yes or no. I'd like to see something like that, with bonuses and maluses applied, but also allowing freedom of evolution over the course of the game. None of this major/minor skill leveling at different rates.

I'm the opposite

I miss the character defining classes. I also miss sleeping at every level.

Classes are the one thing I don't miss at all. I wouldn't mind if Beth brought them back, but I prefer Skyrim's system. It feels much more natural; if they build a game based on the premise that you learn by doing things - your blade skill increases by fighting with blades, lockpicking by picking locks etc. - then why doesn't your overall level increase as you raise individual skills? Because you didn't tag them during character creation? So you can raise your Destruction from 15 to 100, but it doesn't mean squat, you're still a level 1 peasant. Makes no sense to me.

TES never had proper classes anyway. Classes mean something only if they restrict what you can do, but we could always become demigod-level jacks-of-all-trades.

Using Morrowind, as I did not play Oblivion very long, all you had to do was start using the crossbow, just like any other change you wanted your character to make.

The difference is that there were selected major and minor skills, with all the others being "normal." The only thing affected was leveling, not skill advancement. Since the new crossbow would not be a major or minor skill, it would count very little towards your leveling when you improved with it.

I don't have a problem with that and actually liked NOT leveling all the time. This is nigh impossible to do in Skyrim. EVERY skill you use gets leveled and counts towards you character's level. This makes the game go super fast and it gets boring around level 45-50 for me. I am so sick and tired of leveling speechcraft every friggin' time I sell something or leveling lockpicking with every lock I open and then, BAM! My character's level has gone up again. Add to that the stupid guards and merchants commenting on my character's "above level 30 skills" and my mage is being warned about stealing things or being a "sneak thief", even though they have NEVER stolen a thing their lives.

I guess I enjoy the planning of my character that classes with Major and Minor skill selection creates. It is definitely not for everybody, especially those who dislike creating new characters. Classes make each character unique and not the same bland jack-of-all-trades that Skyrim has us playing

Aye, couldn't agree more

I wouldn't mind if they got rid of the concept of levels either, it's the skills that are important.

Skyrim has us nothing. My first Morrowind character joined seven organizations and a Great House, and achieved the highest rank in of most of them. How exactly did the class system stop me from being a jack-of-all-trades?

If you want to roleplay and create interesting, unique characters, you can do it in every TES game. Classes help define your character, but aren't necessary, they always acted only as guidelines.

Guys really, just because you picked a class in previous games that doesn't mean omg-you-have-to-do-this-and-only-this-you-can-never-do-anyhting-else-ever-omg!!!!11!1!?1?!@>@1! Yes, the skills started lower and raised slower, but there was absolutely nothing actually preventing a mage from picking up and swinging a sword if they wanted.

If there's no roleplaying in a roleplaying game then what's the point of it?

Roleplaying is guiding a bare bones normal person into the ultimate X through their adventures using the skills they develop as they travel.

Roleplaying is not picking a class that dictates what skills allow you to level your character, allowing you to pick a class... and never use those skills to forever be a lowly level 1 mage with legendary skills with heavy armor, two handed weapons or Sword & board combat that can smith dragon bone weapons that outclass everything the rest of the world can find

That's a flaw of Bethesda's implementation of the class system, not a flaw of the class system itself.

I would probably not play if had to choose class. I love that in Skyrim I can be whatever I want

I agree with this.