Guilds/Factions were probably the one thing that I thought was way better about Morrowind than Oblivion.

Like in Morrowind, (EDIT: most) guilds/factions in Skyrim should have at least one "enemy" faction, and you should only be able to join one (or at least have to make a choice at some point). Like in Morrowind, they should have some "opposite" missions; i.e. the same mission but taking the opposite side depending on what faction you belong to (think Figters/Thieves or the House missions in Morrowind)

They should especially have something like the Houses in Morrowind, which with the civil war in Skyrim should be easy to implement several competing political groups.

With guilds, (EDIT: most) should have an opposite/enemy. To use Obivion as an example, the Necromancers should have been a joinable faction with their own missions against the Mages Guilds, or the Blackwood Company against the Fighters Guild.

One reason I really like this kind of setup is that it adds great replayability to the game - having good and an evil character that will not have to go through any of the (exact) same quests, which gets boring and greatly deters starting a new character just to play through the same several hours of basic quests just to get to the new content you want to experience.

Examples:
Necromancers vs. Mages Guild
Thieves Guild vs. Dark Brotherhood
Fighters Guild vs. [something like Blackwood Company]

"Houses" like Morrowind, but lore-appropriate counterparts for Nords
Imperial Legion should return as a faction, perhaps as an alternative to the Nords wanting to leave the Empire (Legion works to keep Skyrim in it)

***Disclaimer: Yes, I know that Bethesda has already completed the game's content by this stage in development but I like putting my opinion out there nonetheless.



If this is the impression I gave, I apologize. I was not suggesting such a rigid structure and my examples were only examples, presented without the necessary plot/reason behind them; and I do not advocate making every faction pure good or pure evil, but I believe TES presents factions for the most part as either good, neutral or bad. In short, I agree with everything you said, except the insults. I did get "the point with Morrowind", and I am advocating a return to Morrowind-like factions, as opposed to Oblivion-like simpleton dullville factions where you simply do the quests and become leader of every faction, so implausible and dull.

I get what you are saying, though your examples don't really work well (and I'm not going to jump on you for it).The current lore is really setting up a relatively hostile environment for Skyrim, what with the Civil War/ Secession/ Succession stuff going on with the Nords and the Mages Guild being split in two. I'd be more confused than angry if there weren't a competing faction element in Skyrim.

I'd like opposing factions, but I'd prefer it if they were more morally grey than simple good and evil.

Evil

That word doesn't belong in TES.

Just curious, what do you mean by my examples "don't work well"



Can't argue with you there, but, as far as questlines go, TES is usually pretty black and white.



Again, not sure what you mean here. I seem to get a very clear-cut "good" vs. "bad" vibe in TES story and missions most of the time.

I think this is a good idea. I would like to see 3 "great houses" or whatever the lore appropriate nord equivalent would be.

Yep - am all for having opposing factions - am interested in how the civl war works out - sounds like they are pulling on the old Redguard theme of civil war so there should be opposing factions amongst the Nords and the elves seems to be asserting themselves as well - Am so hoping a Dunmer will say "Seen any nords lately...ha ha ha" Anyway maybe the devs will give us an update on the world conditions soon - I don't think it would be a spoiler to do so.

The only way to make an apocalypse more bearable is by having more killing,prejudice and gang wars I voted yes.

Like I mentioned, the Mages Guild is no more, and also only The Mages in Cyrodiil frown on Necromancy. The Thieves and DB have no reason to get in each others way as they have very different motives. If there were 2 assassins' guilds (like the Morag Tong and the DB) it would make more sense. Just because 2 factions have similar traits that are favored, doesn't mean they would have a vendetta against each other. Like in Morrowind, the Houses hated each other, but weren't related when it comes to favored skills; it was political. The guild interactions should be more web like instead of "A hates B" and "C hates D." Get what I'm saying?

Yeah, but they were just gameplay examples, without a story reason as to why they are enemies. You could easily write a way for the DB and Thieves Guild to be enemies in Skyrim. I thought you meant there was something else wrong with them. Nevermind.

Where did you read about the Mages Guild in Skyrim? I have not seen anything about that.

I'd like opposing factions, but not in the clear-cut way the OP suggests. In Morrowind, some guilds didn't have an enemy, while the Houses were in a 3-way rivalry.

Those are some heavy quotation marks around "opposing." That was one of the things I didn't like about Morrowind. It was great if it seemed like I had to pick one side or the other but I was able to find a way to make both sides happy, but I don't recall that ever happening, and that's what svcked. Yeah, I could make reparations afterward, but that's not what I mean. I'd be fine with it so long as there was a third option for the quest to give the quest-giver what he/she wanted while also making the "opposing" side happy.


Also, this. I had a character that I roleplayed as Necromancer. She was not "evil." My Dark Brotherhood character is not "evil." Evil is a vague concept that is purely subjective.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/fourth-era It should be relatively early on the time line.

The Mages Guild is Imperially sanctioned, so the schism effects the whole of the Empire where the Guild reaches.

I voted yes to opposing factions.

I want there to be opposing factions but I don't want every faction opposing another like in Morrowind.

Choosing one of the three opposing houses in Morrowind helped you define your character. It would be pretty cool if you could join the faction of one of the warlords in the Skyrim civil war (or whatever it ends up being) and determine who becomes king as part of a side quest.

My problem with that is it removes the whole point of having opposing factions. The third option allows you to get the reward and progress while maintaining relations with both factions; it is clearly the best choice. As the above poster mentions, it helps you define your character, plus for me, it just doesn't make sense from a role-playing perspective if I can be a high-ranking member of two opposing organizations.


On the one hand, in the real world, I would agree with your definition of evil, and I would certainly not frown on Bethesda if they opted to make the choices less black and white. However, I wonder where this notion that TES does not present good vs. evil comes from? Are you not saving the world from evil (Dagoth Ur/Mehrunes Dagon) in the main questlines? Did Oblivion not portray the Necromancers as evil? Blackwood Company? Dark Brotherhood? I would argue that they did. While I enjoyed the DB questline in Oblivion (it was the best one in my opinion), I did not come away with the impression that they were not "evil" or "bad" or whatever you want to call it.


Thanks! I suppose I should read the Infernal City. Still, it seems they have set the stage for two competing mage-guild-like organizations, though.

Agreed. Also the rogue Daedra Conjurer Mages should have either recognized The Archmage as their leader (since Daedra summoning was NOT outlawed by the main guild) or should also have been a joinable faction. . . but then, if you are the Archmage of The Mages Guild, you should be able to decriminalize things like necromancy and other summonings. Oh well.

I also thought, if you are an Archmage in opposition to the guild,. . . just as necromancers respawn, so should their attempts against the guild, though obviously in a more generic way and without their original leader.

I don't necessarily want the various guilds duking it out on the streets, but guilds should matter this time around. They should have standards, membership should make a difference, and quests should make sense. It would be nice if guild quests were well woven into the main quest, but I could live with well developed, but fully separate quests.

In short, weaklings shouldn't be able to join the fighters guild, idiots shouldn't be able to join the mages guild, etc. Being a ranking member of a guild (depending on what the guild is) should be acknowledged by NPC's that should care. Etc, etc.

Having inter-guild squabbling is fine, but most guilds generally are orthogonal to each other - serving different aspects of the community. It would be a bit silly if they spent all their resources on petty crap, especially at a time like the last 200 years in Tamriel.

Finally, it would be nice if becoming a guild master actually resulted in some real, tangible rewards or perks. I dunno, mages could get a servant to fetch them things, or make them potions. Warriors could get a sword caddy, or maybe free boot polishings. Something, anything?

Well we know there is a war between Imperialists and those who want an independant Skyrim so that's one good example.

no thanks. how the crap am i supposed to be a battlemage if the fighters and mages guilds hate eachother.

I don't think those two guilds would be much in the way of killing each other, they're both Imperially sanctioned guilds. That doesn't mean there wouldn't be a guild who likens to fighter that would fight against a more magically inclined guild.

I'm for it. Gives the world more depth... and immersion. Tension is good! Gives each guild more purpose and meaning!

You miss the point with Morrowind, it wasn't 1v1 (like you suggested, BAD YOU!), it was "we like this group, hate that group, and this group is meh." Sure, there were guys who butted heads directly, like the Mages Guild and Telvanni, but there were other people and groups they butted heads with. With the Thieves Guild, it wasn't just against the CT, it was also against or for the FG. The FG was either against the TG, but not completely in its sights for a large part, or itself!

Sadly, what you are suggesting is the pathetic and weak 1v1 crap I have been saying has been nothing but a giant..ugh...annoyance! Not to mention, joining goody goodies or puppy kickers is not a choice, it's [censored] stupid! There is no dimension when I'm joining a bunch of puppy kickers, as they're all pretty much end up the same, just killing a person a different way, and save deal with being with goody goodies.

Again, more "we like this group, hate that group, and this group is meh" and less "Necros vs. MG." Guilds and organizations should mingle, take jobs from each other, handle jobs from each other, and so on! More dynamic!

It would be awesome if there was a more dynamic interaction between guilds based on what quests you do for certain guilds or how you treat members of a certain guild, That way it would go beyond just good/evil and would be more unique to each character.

There either isn't a good/ evil aspect to most guilds (logically) or a muddled one. The FG accepts any contract so long as it doesn't break the laws of the area and the MG is always pretty neutral as the "indifferent/ neutral mage" is an archetype in most fantasy. The TG ha sthe conflict of breaking the law but also not hurting anyone/ giving to the poor. The fact that most guilds don't have a set morality and interacted (in Morrowind) based off politics, land, recruitment, and beliefs is why many, like my self, are sore about the lack of interaction in TES4 and why we are loathe to paint any faction as good or evil.