The beast races in Morrowind were far more believable than those in Oblivion due to their unique characteristics such as the way they walked and moved and the fact that they had tails and could not wear boots or gauntlets. In OB the beast races used the same meshes as the other races, and only the faces were really any different. Also, as soon as you found Fin Gleam (which can be obtained as soon as you leave the opening dungeon) you had free access to the main racial abilities of both the Khajiit and the Argonian.

Imagine, with the help of the new Havok Behaviour Engine, that beast races in Skyrim looked and acted genuinely different from all the other races. They could walk and move in a far more realistic and animalistic manner, and could really use the environment to their advantage. Khajiit's could climb, leap and claw their way around the landscape and could perhaps have totally unique abilities not available through other means, such as enhanced night vision (which would be better than anything you could get through items or spells) which would highlight weapons, treasure, or other useful items in their immediate surroundings, as well an advanced "threat sense" for locating hostiles. Argonians could have increased resiliance and could move at greater speeds, especially when in water. Their strength and effectiveness in combat could be further enhanced by a unique "bullet-time" ability as well as perhaps some kind of venom attack or even a lethal swipe of their tails.

LOL. I don't recall anything in TES being so hard to defeat I wished I had "bullet-time". :toughninja:

I have a very strong feeling that the enemies in Skyrim will be much tougher, more varied, and far more realistic. Just look at the combat in the trailer and you will see what I mean. Some of the attacks - both magical and otherwise - look absolutely lethal! I think a lot of these will require far more than the button-mashing many of us were used to in Oblivion.

Skyrim's average difficulty will probably resemble Fallouts.

That may be a little much as it makes the other races vastly inferior. I do agree; moreover, that ALL races should be more unique and have more powerful abilities such as the difference between classes in Mass Effect.

I liked morrowind argonians I wold love option to have they're style legs again.

I preferred the Argonians and Khajiit of Morrowind as well. Originally these races weren't going to be playable, you'd mostly only encounter them as slaves, and it allowed their designs to diverge from the playable races. In Oblivion, as with Daggerfall, they were playable races from the beginning so they were designed as a playable race, not something separate.

Khajiit in Arena Daggerfall were Ohmes-raht. basically just elves with facepaint. (Later games have been Suthay-raht, the cat people we are more familiar with.) Since they were basically people they could wear armor like anyone else. As for Argonians, in Daggerfall they didn't have restrictions and I even believe female argonians had briasts, as they did in Oblivion.

While I'd love it if Bethesda had the more bestial beast races I'm OK if they don't.

I'm all for unique beast races. Fact is, Argonians are not human races. They are beast.
So why do they look like humans through and through from the jawline up in Oblivion? Seems a little ridiculous.

I agree, but I was thinking more in line with Morrowind's armor restrictions, which could be considered a fairly big disadvantage, as well as perhaps both races being frowned upon by most of the others, making dialogue, bartering etc that much more of a challenge. In the end, it is a question of balance - but I think that the beast races have the potential to stand out more as being unique than any of the others.

Maybe an Argonian or a Khajjit would have to have custom made boots? That would be a goo middle ground between Morrowind and Obivion.

Fallout 3/NV combat was far more varied and challenging than in Oblivion, and was made extra cool by the VATS system. Imagine if a system like this was only accessible to the beast races. That would work wonders for replay value!

Honestly, I think the armour restrictions were silly. The beast races have their own cultures, provinces, governments, etc. so it's silly to assume that nobody would make armor to accommodate their body. I suppose no closed helms is more on the sensible side, but I would only enjoy it if there were plenty of open helms available. I wouldn't like the beast races being looked down on by every other race either, it doesn't fit in lore-wise or anything. The only people who would have a general, race-wide distaste for them would be the Dunmer and Altmer (but they notoriously don't like anybody besides themselves).

Yeah the armour variations would be nice.. which bring us to a point however.

Ohmes and Ohmes - Raht don't have beastial claws or limbs, mostly elven in all aspects.
So they would not be restricted in clothing at all really.
So unless body shapes are hugely customisable I'd say that all races will have access to all equipment slots like boots and gloves.
However I've done this before in Oblivion ust don't use them on the bodies to fit the role if you can't help it.

I do think the starting stats and abilities should be wide.
I'd love for Khajiit to be more acrobatic, and Argonians more athletic in many ways.


TBH I'm happy with that as long as certain things are tweaked.
The average difficulty was fine, lowest great easy for any player.
Harder settings however needed work as it was just silly in implementation rather than harder.

Perhaps they could be manipulated by the political upheaval in Skyrim and blamed for the troubles in some way. I think this would put a nice twist on the plotlines in the game. After all, they were both previously regarded as lesser races in previous TES lore and were enslaved. It would be easy for this to be manipulated by those in power to create fear and distrust.

As for the armor, maybe they could have unique armor parts that were just harder to come by.

How could they be blamed for the trouble in any believable way? And the beast races were only regarded as a lesser race in Morrowind by the Dunmer, every else they were equals and free citizens.

EDIT: Actually, I have an answer for my own question. They could be blamed by the pro-Empire party because Argonia and Elsweyr have seceded from the Empire, so they've spread thoughts of rebellion/secession. I'm not sure how I feel about that being implemented though.

They could always do it like World of Warcraft, where helms for races that have odd shaped heads, or tusk/horns, have unique models for all helms.
Like, there is the "regular" version of a helm in World of Warcraft, but then also versions for Trolls, Worgen, and Tauren because they have oddly shaped heads that wouldn't make sense to use the normal version.
It really isn't that much more work. Simply reshaping the mode isn't a huge deal, especially considering how big Skyrims team is.

please dont change the beast races back.. i liked my shoes.. and M'aiq himself said he looked better than ever

I agree also. Bring back the old Khajiit and Argonians!

In the same way that any political system can engineer a situaltion. By using constructed evidence and plausable deniability for those who are really responsible. You could have a number of incidents (remember we are talking 200 years after the events in Oblivion) that have been engineered to show the beast races in a bad light. You could have an entire village wiped out by "thieves and bandits" who have left behind certain evidence that would point to the Khajiit's and Argonians. The fact that these races are actual beasts in nature could be manipulated by making it look like the killings were carried out by some kind of wild animals. This would certainly incite fear and distrust amongst the other races. As for motives, certain people in power (including those in Tamriel) use situations not necessarily to punish those who are made to appear guilty, but to achieve other far more sinister objectives that fit in with their agendas...

They don't have to lose the ability to wear shoes to have digitigrade legs, or even at the very least more beast-like feet. :shrug:

Yes, but didn't somebody once say that M'aiq was a liar?... :biggrin:

well he was right about the dragons .. and the mudcrab.. and the shrine of boethia.. and the dwaves
then in oblivion he just like to talk about what was missing
so i think it was just people hatin :toughninja:

Okay then, I'll give you that one LOL! Maybe he could appear in Skyrim as the only Khajiit with the body of a human as per Oblivion. That way he could still wear his shoes!

I wonder if there will actually be any tounge-in-cheek elements in Skyrim or if it will all be of a more serious tone.

Losing a minor armor slot is not a big deal at least not in Morrowind with all the other equipment slots.
Also it was solvable, multiple mods who solved it well. Simplest, give glass boots to khajiit smith, he convert them to beast race style.
My only problem with Khajiits in Morrowind was the walk animation, solve that and the Morrowind style is far more interesting and cool

Nobody except Fargoth liked you in the beginning no matter that race you played.
Yes it was a bit annoying but felt much better then you become popular.

I prefer the way the beast races feet looked in Morrowind, but I really hated how they walked like they were wearing a full diaper.

I'd say, give them the ability to fight with their claws again and if you do give them more "bestial" legs again make sure the animations look good. I have faith in the latter seeing as how Bethesda has stated they always felt animation was their weak point and they've really tried to improve that in Skyrim. And I think that shows in the gameplay trailer.