I think it is kind of lame that turrets cannot spot enemy Operatives disguised when Operatives have so many counters to taking out turrets seriously. First they have there emp grenades that render them useless making it easy to attack head on especially with your teamates with you. Then they have the ability to sneak up and hack it as well turning it against the user and his team. Do they really need to not be spotted by turrets as well come on now they seem to be getting a little too much love they can do all this and detect the other teams equipment.

Think about it even if they were able to be spotted while disguised by turrets it would still be easy for them to render them useless. All they need to to is flank while disguised and come up from behind in a turrets blind spot still pretty easy.As well as being able to if they want charge it after using an emp grenade and either destroy it or hack it. Not to mention turrets dont have a very crazy range in the first place and they have stated that turrets will be used more as a distraction/ annoyance then actually killing people.

On top of that they have stated that turrets will not be able to track light body types very well making them at an even more disadvantage. So all in all the turrets seem like they are pretty worthless how easily they can be taken out and how ineffective they sound but I guess we will have to wait in see when the game is released.

Then again, Gotcha, it's not like the turrets will always be off on their own. Often they will be people around, and they can just shoot the Operative in the face, or something.

That is if they notice them and they are not disguised right in the mix of your team getting ready to turn that turret on you guys. The thing I would like to know is if when they are disguised if they can also walk over Eng mines without them going off. If so that is messed up because that would be one of an Eng only defenses to keeping the turrets blind spots covered besides of course them covering it themselves.

Even better, Operatives can see mines. Heh, and I can sort of see your point. 0_o'

I think it will be balanced how it is, but you're right that it would make things more interesting if Operatives still had to sneak up on guns while disguised. Or maybe better, and more realistically, Engineers could get an ability that lets their turrets see disguised Operatives.

Cool! This means theres level 3 sentries!
haha

I'm going to be the annoying one who sets up a little level one turret where you would least expect it, just like I did in TF2!

- :flame:

1.What else can we do? Hack things, disguise and take out turrets.. Annoy people? We're the class that is meant to prod at peoples sides. Relay and spot things. Taking point by taking the side route. We can't place fancy mines, or turrets. Hell if you're a engineer sniper, place the turret facing behind you while you snipe forward! Or face the turret out and you facing and scanning behind you with a shottie.

2.If you see a teammate just standing behind you.... glaring at you and your turret waiting for you to turn around.. Well sir this is when you turn the gun to him and light him up! Obviously something is wrong.
Remember, Operatives can't shoot their gun, so if theres the opposing forces pouring in and everyones shooting but you have a teammate behind you slightly just standing there. Obvious operative is obvious

3. They also said smart engineers would place the turret in strategic areas where they could hit the Light Bodies before they can free run/parkour all over the place.



Everyone can see mines, if we stare at it though, it'll mark it on the map for others who don't pay attention.




You also have to take into consideration how hard it'll be to disguise. This isn't TF2 ya know We can't disguise randomly. Gotta lure. Pop up on a roof, shoot somebody, then run like a mad man! Get him secluded then whack'm! Then disguise, then! Make it back to the battle area. Teamwork game means you'll rarely see people alone unless nobody wants to defend and only 1 is doing so. You'd have to whipe out 3 or 4 (minimum) just to get privacy.

Operatives are the shy type after all. Can't disguise with ya looking! :blush2:

Sidenote: It's obvious where SOME mines will be. About as obvious as knowing where a sniper is, so getting to them means looking for the claymore first.

Scenario! You're parked on a high advantage point with your turret mowing things down, you can see everything but only 1 blind spot that the engineer checks regularly and has added protection with his mine. We climb up, our camera lets us see the mine and pulling yourself up would implode you! What're we gonna do? Shoot it? That alerts the engineer. So throw a grenade. Then again everyone can throw grenades!

Just set yourself up so that you're safe, now if you're at a low vantage point then... well yeah. Tu software es mi software.

Game's already going to be easy, why make it easier?

A bad Op is going to get got, a good Op is going to require the attention of a good Counter Op. For the love of gaming, give skill players something to do. :banghead:

Exactly I am glad someone thinking about playing an Operative see's my point :foodndrink: . It seems as though they are making it way to easy for Operatives to be able to completely render an Eng and his abilities useless. I mean its not like a Eng Turret is going to be a tank they wont do alot of dmg, wont have a crazy amount of health, cant track light body types good, have a small range, have a blind spots making it easy to takeout from behind and then on top of all that they give Ops all these ways to take them out like it wouldnt be easy enough you know what I mean? That is all I was trying to get it.

Atleast if they made/ gave the option for turrets to be upgrade or to innately be able to spot disguised Ops it would make things a little more difficult not much but a little and what is wrong with that? It gives Ops a bit more of a challenge making them use there brain a little more.

-You can take out specific targets with sticky bombs for ex. Medics so they can give health and revive people.
- You can comms hack lets you extract tactical intel form incapacitated enemies. If successful, every enemy’s location will be shown on your teammate’s radar
- Use Caltrops Grenades which shoot spikes out ( i believe as well as shooting smoke out for cover) and any one who walks within area takes dmg from spikes.
- You can Firewall Command Post makes it take longer for an enemy to capture your team’s Health or Supply Command Post
- Can spot enemy mines
- Hack enemy turrets
- Also have The Cortex Bomb is a surgically planted explosive charge that can be detonated when you’re incappacitated, eliminating any nearby enemies.

So you may not be able to place mines or turrets instead you place sticky bombs, blow up your dead body taking enemies with you, and have grenades what create cover and enemies who try and chase you through it get dmg'd by spikes.

As for 1-2 that goes without saying I am simply pointing at why are they making it so easy for Operatives to completely negate all Eng abilities? Like I stated it is already going to be easy to take out a Turret why make it even easier for them? They should have some challenge trying to take them out.

Thanks for the addition. I forgot about the Caltrops.

You also have to take into consideration about the Engineer. If you NEVER Look back to check up on your mine or turret, thats on you.

If you hear footsteps (Granted they don't have the silent walking) and no teammates are visible on your minimap, it's obvious that it's an enemy.

Worse that Operatives can specifically do to your turret is hack it. Mines are counter measure as well as it being placed in an area that forces enemies to only be able to reach it from specific paths.

Engineer's are the only ones who can disarm mines. If Operatives could. I'd be on your side 100%.

I didn't say it would be too easy, Gotcha, I merely said I can see where you're coming from.

Operatives are supposed to be able to do a lot, they're intentionally a diverse class, and are different from the other classes in that they can't buff teammates.

I still don't think it's too big of a deal although, as I said, I can sort of see your point. As has been said, turrets are there to harass enemies and provide support. If someone destroys a turret, build a new one. Or stay close to your turret and keep an eye on it. Either way, I don't see its inability to detect disguises as gamebreaking. Maybe not optimal, I can't say till I've played the game, but it doesn't sound gamebreaking either.

Lol np cant forget about the Caltrops :laugh:

As far as hearing footsteps lol I dont think that is going to help too much unless you have some incredible surround sound or crazy expensive head set which I dont so I prob wont be hearing footsteps too often. If you have either of those then yea you can pinpoint where the sound is coming from and react but most games you can hear footsteps and it doesnt make a bit of difference lol.

Mines arent really a counter measure considering they can be seen by Operatives. It doesnt really make much sense they can see the mines yet only Eng can disarm them. Shouldn't Eng be able to see them then or how are they going to disarm? Go to where the Op told them it was and hope they dont get to close and blow it up lol?

Anyways back to my point they arent really a counter measure see they can see them they can just find an alternative route around them or wall run over them ect. After all we are talking about Brink it will prob be pretty easy for people who know where mines are to just climb over them or find a way around them. So even with them not being able to disarm them it still doesnt make a difference.

You act like I am suggesting for them to put a sign over Ops heads saying I am a robot in disguise. I am simply saying I am worries about how easy it is for Ops to negate all the Eng abilities. They could make it a little more difficult but I guess we will have to see how things play out when the game is released before we will really know if it will be an issue or not. For now we just have to believe all classes are balanced out well and have counters to one another.




They can buff teamates they have Comms Hack which reveals the position of the enemy for a peroid of time that is exactly like a buff if not better than other buffs because it allows to to see where the enemy is and act accordingly.

But on the other note like I said all the time put into this game I am sure things are probably balanced out alright we will see what happens when the game comes out.

Time for the Engi love. :intergalactic:

As someone else said, everyone can see mines. I'm not sure if Operatives can see them better always, but I know that after they call them out they glow red, I think I read somewhere. So they can point them out and then an engineer can come and disarm it without risking getting blown up.

I think you're over concerning yourself.

SD doesn't want engineers to toss their turret somewhere and forget about it, and if you do you take the risk of losing it to an Op. Having to keep one eye on that turret, or those mines, means that those Engi-Snipers aren't going to be as safe as some think.

Game balance doesn't mean everybody has a counter to everybody else, it means both teams have the ability to counter each other. If your team keeps throwing Ops my way, somebody needs to focus on Counter-Op play. Or we need to send an Op your way in hopes of forcing you to play counter-op.

They have stated this for sure? Last time I heard mines where going to be like in quake wars where they were under the ground or something and only Ops could see them.

Nope! Everyone can see them! ^-^
Ops can only mark them.

Comms Hack is very situational, you need a downed enemy. What I meant was - and I realize it was unclear - Operatives don't have any candy to toss out to their teammates; no heals, ammo, or damage upgrades. So they have a broader range of base abilities. I think they're an interesting class, and not overpowered. Although, as you said, the game isn't out yet, and we just have to wait and see how it all unfolds.

Even though I like the idea of Operatives, I probably won't be playing one for a while, not until the inevitable ninja assassin phase has died down a bit. Well, unless the team doesn't have one, of course. I'll play whatever is needed, because that's how I roll.

Yea just have to wait and see when its released how balanced everything is I'm sure everything will be pretty good but who knows. Yea the Op does sound like an interesting class to play but like you said since it is one the classes they have been banking on to pull people in I prob wont play as one for awhile already going to be enough want to be ninja's out there lol.

Sorry I have a bad habit of doing that.



Well they get a bonus if they hack it from behind.

Ops spot mines and engineers can disarm. Teamwork ftw!

SD has played and balanced this game extensively, both internally and through small betas. Balance and selflessness are their top priorities with this game, so I can't imagine they wouldn't be aware of all the public predispositions about certain classes and abilities being rendered useless by others.

I'll tell you one thing... I'm not going to stand infront of a turret to hack it .-.;

I believe that the term is want to be Wraith's.

Did they say whether or not the turrets can spin in full 360 movements? from what I have seen it is only about 180 degrees, which is fine for me, I'm just interested as to how much it can turn.

Yeah really, who cares if it can't tell you're an enemy, it can still shoot you if you're in front of it.