I like that turrets in Brink take a while to lock on. It keeps the game more interesting (and skill-based since turrets are basically aimbots) instead of it turning into a turret fest (see Global Agenda, turrets win matches in that game).

I understand that they are in the game as a form of defense. But they're not a very good form of defense, because they never fire. They do not even dissuade enemies from moving into their field of fire. And I'm not simply throwing the turret out into open space...I am not some ignorant donkey. I am intelligent enough to strategize. I've deployed the turret in all sorts of locations...every location I can think of, to be honest. I've positioned the turret in corners, overlooking an objective. I've placed the turret in positions where it cannot be seen until you actually walk into its' field of vision. I've placed the turret in completely unexpected locations where it makes no sense to deploy a turret, just for the sake of surprise. I've deployed mines to punish people attempting to flank the turret. None of my efforts have improved the effectiveness of the turret. Most of the time, it gets disabled before it ever fires a shot.

It is so ineffectual that I've literally stopped playing engineer at times. If I play as a soldier, I can never run out of ammunition (just like a turret), I can target enemies at just as great a distance (if not greater) than a turret, and I myself acquire targets MUCH faster than the turret can. Mines, damage buffs, and armor buffs are all quite nice, but they don't make up for the worthlessness of the turret.

Look, I concede the point to people who say, "the turret isn't meant to be a stand-in for you". I understand that line of thinking perfectly. I don't WANT a turret powerful enough to play the game for me. I also understand that it is just one of several engineer abilities. But right now, the thing is a hunk of junk. It should at least be threatening enough to dissuade an individual who lacks the proper tools from engaging it. As it is right now, the only reason for you to get shot by a turret is if you're completely incompetent. You can launch a direct, frontal assault on a turret and disable it before it has a chance to return fire, if your aim is good. I have yet to be killed by a turret, even though I've attacked many turrets in just that fashion. I don't know what you guys think the role of a turret is in a FPS, but traditionally a turret is a device with a limited firing arc that cannot be moved once it is deployed. The payoff for tethering yourself thusly is that a turret's firepower and accuracy essentially force an enemy to plan for them. A turret is not supposed to be an insurmountable obstacle, but it's also not supposed to be something that you can attack frontally without cover. I have literally had people running up the street towards me, fifty feet distant, and they've overpowered my turret facing in that direction. And they haven't even had any special type of weapon. They haven't used a sniper rifle to disable it, nor a grenade gun or launcher. Simple assault rifle fire has sufficed. That's just wrong. There's nothing else to it.

I also don't understand why people would want to play as an Operative, since thanks to Brink's IFF system it's easy to immediately recognize an enemy Operative. =)

Actually, it proceeds more like "I put the turret in a strategic location. I then fantasize about what it might be like if the turret could actually help me secure the strategic location. While I am fantasizing about what it might be like if the turret could actually help me secure the strategic location, I take a headshot from a buffed light rifle wielded by an enemy engineer who didn't waste his supply pips on a turret."

;)

A light operative is extremely fun to play as. You can get to positions mediums cannot and scout the other team from behind them. A tremendous help to your entire team. You don't really need to be running around with the opposing team out in the open, in fact, it's a rather dumb way to play as an operative.

I got the impression that turrets are meant to defend an engi while he's sitting helplessly repairing something.

So, you all want the turrets to lock on like the turrets in the spawn area? THEN they'd be over powered, and people would complain...

I agree with the OP the turrets are pretty much useless in Brink. People say place them in strategic positions in which I call b.s because most the places that are strategic your turrets will not fire from because it cannot track people from there. For example most vantage points on areas if you try and place a turret it will not track players running below even if they are directly underneath it like 10ft away. The detection system on the Engy Turrets is messed up because when placing turrets in areas looking down on an area they almost never will fire or detect enemies below.

On top of this the fact that they have no health and are immobilized at half health, slow response time, messed up detection system, low dmg and are countered by class (operative) they become pretty useless. If they gave them a bit more health so one grenade did not take them out and made them be immobilized at 10-15% there health instead of half and gave it a little quicker response time they may actually be worth the investment and risk of placing.

I'm not asking for them to be a superpower in Brink I simply want them to be worth the skill points and risk of placing them. As they are now they are simply a decoration Engineer's can place on the battlefield because lets face it they never have a chance to shoot at anyone before they are taking out because of all the issues listed above. They need to find a balance for the turret so that it is of some use and there is actually a reason for Operatives to disguise and Hack enemy turrets.

On that not I think it's kind of stupid that when an Operative hacks a enemy turret it turns the turret red notifying that team it is no longer theres. It should stay a friendly color until it begins to fire upon the team in which it use to belong. There really is no advantage to hacking an enemy turret if they know it has been hacked wouldn't you agree? So what I am suggesting is that when an Operative Hacks a turret it should still show it is friendly to that team unless it is firing. This would allow hacked turrets to cause a bit of chaos within the enemies midst allowing the Operatives team a chance to move in while they are trying to deal with that.

You got that right!

I'll say this again,if you wanna see what OP turrets are like,go play Killzone 3 then tell me how much you want to buff the turrets.

Turrets are already way too powerful if you put them pointing right at command posts and objective interaction spots.

No need to make them even more powerful than they already are.

+1

This is what people need to do.

People forget turrets are normal abilities, the Gatling turret is good when it locks on, and I find its easier to get a lock on a character whens he's running in a straight line, i.e. towards and objective or exit door, the power of turrets have been completely unexaggerated, I've gotten 5+ incaps on human players online in one match.

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. Unless someone is completely lacking common sense they will not even be shot at a turret once. You can run straight a line from 50 yds away right past them before they even try to fire and by then it is too late and you take it out from behind.

Read my previous post and play as an Engineer try placing turrets then come back and say that with a straight face.





What do you mean by normal abilities? Also turrets are not good beause 10-100 times of running straight at one it will actually lock on and fire at you. The power of turrets has not be unexaggerated it has been over exaggerated. People hear the word turret and are quick to say they are OP and need nerfing.

Now i'm not saying they should be godly but they definitely need a boost from there current state to make them worth the investment and risk of placing.

Turrets are stationary correct? So once you know where they are they can be taken out or avoided quite easily. On top of this they show up on your mini-map in Brink making them even more easy to spot add to this the huge list of issues I listed in my previous post and they really serve no purpose as they are now.

Hm. That may be the case for you.
I've been mowed down by turrets multiple times and I've had many kills with turrets so I don't see the issue. Sure, you can increase their aim capabilities by a little bit, but I really do not want to see overpowered turrets in the game being hogged by engineers.

And sure, the turret may be easy to take out, but isn't that just the point? It's a TURRET... Not another human player. OH and can't Ops control turrets?

In order to make the turret ability balanced they needed to make it roughly as useful as any other ability.

The light turret = one molotov
Medium = two molotovs
Gatling = three molotovs

If turrets were auto locking and killed with no help how could any player not justify playing as an engineer with Gatling turrets.
Turrets are meant to soften up enemies help around an objective, its like having a second gun, and if any thing are a distraction to the enemy. Because they cant shoot you while grenading your turret, I am a fully upgraded engineer thats fine with the turrets. I admit they are obviously not perfect or broken, but balanced enough you can make an argument for either side, at least appreciate that.

Your point makes no sense. If the point is it is a turret and not a human player then wouldnt it have more health considering it it made of reinforced metal and a human is made of flesh and bone... just saying :facepalm:.

Also no one is asking for them to be overpowered just tweaked to be of some kind of practical use and worth the investment and risk of placing. On top of this if they were of some risk to the other team maybe there would be more Operatives and Soldiers playing seeing as Soldiers could use there explosives to take them out and Operatvies could hack them and turn them against there own team.





I never said to make them auto locking if you read my original post then you would see what I was saying were the issues and what needs to be addressed.

They do not need to shoot at you when they can grenade your turret which you will most likely be near which will injure you as well. Also does it make much sense there are no OHK in Brink for players yet a reinforced turret can be OHK by grenade when a player cannot. Granted it does not blow up but it becomes immobilized.

I simply think they need to adjust a turrets response time and health so they actual shoot at players running at them and are not taking out so easy by one grenade.

Also I cannot remember if I suggested this on this forum or the SD forums but I was saying they should individualize the turrets. So there would be benefits and weaknesses to each version of the turrets. So for Ex. light turrets would have less health do less damage but quicker response time and wider detection radius. Mediums a balance of the both and heavies putting out a good amount of damage but slower response time ect.

This would make each Engineer a bit more customized in give the player more options to suit how they want to play as an Engineer.

They are already more then worth theyr investment and risk Gotcha...

turret + mine = win

The turrets seem fine with damage and rate of fire and all, but the tracking seems to be off at times. Like a guy running right up to it, inside its range, and the guy gets half a clip off, and then it's like 'Oh yea!' and starts to shoot.

I'm going to side with my fellow engies. The turrets need to be beefed up. A fully upgrade turret costs a total of 3 points. It also ends on a level 5 skill. That means the turret should be as powerful as the medic's Lazarus grenade, the soldier's Kevlar vest, and the operative's sticky bomb, COMBINED. The cost of putting a fully upgraded turret in a build is equivalent to having all of these skills. An upgraded turret should be the most powerful ability in the game, because it is the most expensive. Period.

Right now, turrets are very ineffective. When I deploy a fully upgraded turret, that area should be locked down. As is now, my turret is lucky to kill individual targets, let alone multiple. Why waste supply points putting down a turret, when you can put down a single mine that will practically guarantee a kill? Turrets are only effective in groups, and I know lots of people have been using this a defense for arguing not to buff them, but any ability is powerful in groups. Ever seen a big group of medics revive each other a dozen times? This game SHOULD reward working together, but as of right now, the engineer is being screwed because 3 of his skills are dedicated to an ability that is only as strong as most single level skills.

I have played an engineer to level 20, but after realizing that the turret never becomes any better, I pretty much have stopped playing the class. Engineers are a powerful class already, they can buff weapons, armor, and place turrets and mines, but I think it is pathetic that 3 of their skills (turret) are less useful compared to the other skills.

I think that the Soldier should be given weapon buffing, and the Engineer should have a more powerful turret.

I don't know if they should be as powerful as all those abilities combines but they should definitely be able to atleast do what they were intended to do and prevent players from taking certain routes. This means they need to pose some kind of threat. As they are now no one is hesitant or afraid when they see a turret they simply throw a grenade and take cover or run directly at it slide behind it and then take it out all the while it sits there looking like a lawn ornament. Like you said though they def need to be tweaked to make it worth the investment and danger of planting one.


Again I really have no problem with them not killing enemies. As far as I am concerned they could nerf the damage more if they will give them a faster response time and better detection. If you try and place them in vantage points overlooking areas 9/10 they will not shoot at a single enemy even if the enemy is 6-10ft below it. It makes not sense any tactical player would place there turret with a great vantage point over an area they are trying to defend so for them not to work there makes really no sense.

Also if they adjusted this it may help with them being taken out so quickly since they would be placed in areas what would be a little harder for them to nade spam or if they tried would leave them exposed and vulnerable.

On the other topic I completely agree people are so quick to yell turrets will be OP yet quick to defend everything else that the same thing could be said about when used properly. Like you said a group of medics could keep reviving players or a group of Operatives could stack caltrap grenades and sticky grenades in areas or Soldiers could spam grenades together yet you don't see people saying anything about that. But god forbid a couple engineers lay turrets down together its overpowered and cheap.



I agree it's funny how something what costs you 3 skill points to invest is less effective them lower abilities of most other classes.

The thing about giving the soldier the weapon buff ability is they would have to rework every class if they did that and heres why. That could in fact be something for soldiers after all they are all about destruction correct? Yet engineers construct and improve things so it makes sense with them as well. Well then Operatives should be able to de-hack things instead of Engineer's as well. If thats the case then There goes 2 of the engineers main abilities in which need to be replaced.

Granted Soldiers and Operatives are lacking in the objectives and interaction department they can still rack up xp for performing there duties well. So all in all it balanced out as far as that is concerned.

Engineers who don't think turrets are effective simply don't know how to plant their turrets.

If you put one in the right spot, you can basically shut down the attacking team's objective until the turret is disabled.

When you have a whole team of engineers planting turrets and mines in the proper places, it's pretty much impossible for the attacking team to progress the objective unless they have EMP grenades.

Gotcha, you raise some valid points. Skill swapping will present cascading problems, but giving the engineer so many good skills, while the soldier has so few is a core balance issue. It's one of those things that if changed, require many other things to be changed as well. Even simply buffing the soldier doesn't make up for the fact they lack interesting abilities, and damage compared to other classes.

Thanks for the intelligent response as well, sincerely. I appreciate every post that doesn't boil down to immature one liners, like most forum posts.



I'm sorry, but this is simply false. I am not some newbie who has never played games before, I have spent my fair share gaming and I have played numerous games that have place able turrets. I fully understand the most effective methods to place turrets, but unfortunately due to their feeble health, and sluggish tracking, turrets are not able to effectively kill targets. This is especially obvious with experienced human players, whom understand how to effectively disable them with a few shots from cover, or a single grenade. In fact, I have yet to be killed by an enemy turret, as many others have said. I'm fairly sure I have been killed by nearly every ability in the game, from sticky bombs, to Molotovs, to mines, but never being killed by a turret says something about their combat effectiveness.



I have never seen a single turret shut down the enemy team for any amount of time. At best, turrets are brief stumbling stone, such that any more than a single person can easily overcome them. Because turrets are so weak, when focused on they go down quicker than human players because of their static placement. The only suitable role I have found for turrets is to place them away from where combat will take place. So that they can occasionally fire at enemies to soften them up for myself. The turret shouldn't require me to actively help it. I don't put my mines down and then hover over them so they won't get easily destroyed by a single passing enemy. I put them down in the appropriate spot and they do their job just fine without me.



Again, any mix of classes using any mix of team work can shut down the other team, a team of engineers is not an exception. You could replace the same situation with a team of operative users skilled in placing caltrops and sticky bombs. The point however, is regarding the cost of a turret in a build, and their lack of effectiveness versus other single point skills. If turrets are supposed to be weak, they should only cost 1 point to get the highest ranked turret. I shouldn't have to drop 3 points for each turret, only to have them be sub-par.

Even if turrets are placed in a good spot the chances of them actually acquiring a target ( and not just aimlessly scan back and forth ) and firing before it itself being destroyed by a semi sleep walking player or stray grenade is slim to none. Thats the problem.. Far to often ( like 90% + for me ) the turret does nothing even if a target is in range and scanned over. The only time my turret has ever fired on an enemy player is if the turret is attacked and it so happened to be pointing right at the player.

Those that are acting if turrets are fine.. get over yourself. They need to be tweaked as far as target acquisition is concerned.

Okay, I understand that. For now we can just plant control boxes on turrets and fire them from somewhere else

Vectus, My first char to 20 was a engineer, and It is the char I have logged the most hours with.. the turrets are indeed acting fine, if they acted anymore fine they would be to fine..

Turrets is all about placement, and if your turret does not manage to aquire a target then there is no doubt the issue is the one placing it not the turret he places.. I have no problems what so ever placing them in such a way that they become effective and highly disruptive to the enemy team.

Just how powerful do you want them to be exactly? Engineers allrdy have what I consider to be the hands down best perks.

Phathod

"Right now, turrets are very ineffective. When I deploy a fully upgraded turret, that area should be locked down. As is now, my turret is lucky to kill individual targets, let alone multiple"

That comment makes it pretty obvious what kind of turrets you are asking for, and that is simply not gonna happen, turrets were never ment to lock down a area or get multiple kills, or even singular kills.
They are ment as a distraction, nothing more.