Bethesda,

We haven't seen any ingame/gameplay screenshots/videos yet. I ask that 'if' you showcase something new and cool we actually get it at release. There were quite a few things shown during the E3 demos for OB that were cut/hobbled. I understand how this happened but please deliver on what you demo this time. It should be well known what the target platforms can support and if you've tested carefully there shouldn't be post demo surpirses requiring radical last miniute editing. Thats all I ask.

Meh, its their right to cut and change as much as they want to. Unless they actually really promise anything, that is.

Think about F3. didn't happen. Same will probably be true of tes5. I wouldn't worry. Unfortunately we won't see any cool videos demonstrating cool tech that can't make it.

I would actually like to see all the stuff they tried. Seeing tech demos of a WIP game are quite enlightening to me. It's just people don't understand it, and cry foul from being teased when features don't make into the game. I wasn't the least bit bothered that they had to make a cut. They are doing it behind closed doors anyway. I'd rather see than not see.

But they didn't really add tech in FO3. In fact there seems to be less tech. Now we're being told there's a new game engine. Imagine if 20mins before release you find out that iDTech 5 dropped megatexture or CryEngine 3 dropped specular mapping? Demo's are part of the selling points of the game.

Now I'm as interested in the academics of graphics and animation as much as the next guy but I don't see them offering up their development curiosities without application.

falllout had less tech? I do not agree there. Especially in terms of the eye candy side. Check all the new shader code, dismemberment, all kinda of advancements to psystems, new Landscape LOD algorithm. More optimization in the form of a portal/window system. It goes on and on. One thing that was dropped was the mount system. it's basically impossible to parent 1 skeleton to another. not sure what else was culled though. Probably a few more things. from my perspective, overall it was moving forward in tech.

20mins before release is a bit short on time there! Devs would running around like headless chickens. But yeah I see your point. But basically nothing happens. Except you get a whole load of moaning from gamers lol/ It happens all the time. Spore is prime material. And yeah it is a marketing tool to sell games. As long as the company isn't dangling things in demos they know will not make the cut, then I'm cool with what ever tech the want to demo.

I watch loads of demos

videogames will almost never have what they show in the preview, because they try to condense most of the game in a 5 min segment, so yeh your gonna miss some stuff

They're much further along with Skyrim than they were with Oblivion at the time they started showing us stuff, it's really getting too late for them to start scrapping features at this point.

Good point. I personally don't get over excited for game videos cause you just never know. Although I completely broke that mind sight and soon as I saw Todd on stage at the VGA's. Even if by some strange horrible way they showed something that ended up being cut I would not care in the slightest. I'll still have Elder Scrolls V and that's all that matters to me.

And this bothers you so much... why? :huh:

I think the main thing he was referring to was how Beth showcased Oblivion's dialogue system in the demo (namely the Dunmer voice) and how it was quite different from the game. Then there's the whole radiant AI thing...

Also dropped weather, all the additional body slots, no magic system (not relevent). LOD was improved but then there was less Speedtree to render. Dismemberment and VATS turned out to be a bit goofy though they 'were' new tech. But I don't see the point in saying 'we can do this' if they don't actually 'do this'.



Trick question? Because if I see a demo demonstrating Radiant AI and dynamic lighting and then buy the game and those features aren't there I'm going to be disappointed. If I did that to 'my' customers in my occupation it wouldn't fly. Has something to do with meeting expectations.

Hopefully nothing will get cut, but they could cut anything they want at any time, as is the nature of modern game development.

The Oblivion CS is full of settings and resources that were never used, but obviously were going to be in the game somewhere but got cut.

I remember reading a dev saying that all games have to do the cutting process, because they always have more ideas than they can implement and the stuff that gets cut is not just thrown away, but is used to base new ideas on for future releases of games and DLC.

Expect cuts, because it's an important part of games development, even if it makes the consumer angry.

To be honest I believe the devs were even more disapointed that they weren't able to put the real RAI and the real shadows in Oblivion. I'm sure they didn't abandon the idea and they had enough time to figure out how to implement the goodies in Skyrim. The odds are favorable: the hardware is the same, and they are 4 years smarter :biggrin:

Aren't there are more biped slots in fallout than ob? Ob has what 10? remember fallout have earings, eyeglasses, backpack, addon1-3, and so on...

anyway I understand your sentiment. You are basically saying you don't want to see any previews unless it is the final game. While in this case you will probably be quite satisfied. I actually like to see previews of alpha and beta games, and wouldn't mind seeing one right now, yes in its current state regardless. You can close your eyes until release.

So if you ever went to one of those car shows were they show off prototype models you would get disappointed when you buy the real car years later and it is nothing like the prototype?
Well by all means, that is your right, but everyone in the industry would just shake their head and laugh at you.

No difference here.

At least with TES they can't possibly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8dvMDFOFnA. I can't even begin to tell you how pissed people were (and still are) over that.

OB was kind of a disappointment in that sense.

I believe that they waited so long to announce for this reason specifically. When we see a demo for Skyrim, it will only be about 10 months until release after said demo, which is significantly shorter than the time frame between OB's demo and release. So the cool features that will get cut from Skyrim, have probably already been cut.

People are frustrated because they got lied to up front, they got told "This is not scripted" just before they saw the RAI of their wettest dreams, but then it turned out to be scripted... it would have been better if Todd had said "This is scripted, but this is how we want Oblivion to be with RAI" then it would not have been such a lie, I′ve never met anyone who says that he likes being lied to so the whole "oh cutting things out is normal" is redundant when speaking about Oblivion, because we were told that it would be in there, not that it could be in there or that they wanted it to be in there, but that it really would be in the game.

:thumbsup:

Whatever makes for a smooth predictable engine.

So if they try something new and innovative and find later in development that while a great idea, it broke the game in some way you want them to not release the game until they can accomplish what they set out to do?

And I don't think you have to worry about it anymore because they learned their lesson and now tell us nothing until it is set in stone. I am of the belief that when we complained about this we cut off our own noses to spite our face. The devs don't discuss the game with us much anymore because we were so unforgiving and ugly when they had to cut out the shadows and pull back on the AI they had hoped to give us. It wasn't lies, it was something they found out later on in development that while pretty cool, it broke some portions of the game and instead of us accepting that as part of development, many of us called them liars. In response, we don't get information until it's set in stone. and developers don't talk about what the game might be like or what they are trying anymore. :shrug:

We made this bed.

As it should be. Don't want to be shown stuff that I don't get to play

About all you can do is not watch the videos, because some things will be cut. As they go through the QA process, they'll find things that don't work and have to change or remove them. RAI is a good example. Having it cranked to it's full potential resulted in chaos so they had to dial it back.

Please don't show us women setting thier dogs on fire, and not implement the feature. :cryvaultboy:

(No sarcasm, there)

Poor Thunderbolt