Brother Hood Of Steel and Enclave Remnants Alliance could it

Post » Wed May 02, 2012 9:12 pm

With the threat of the NCR hunting down the Brother Hood members and Enclave remnants could they start an alliance to fight the NCR, could they put all the [censored] aside to help each other ?
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Laura Shipley
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 6:16 pm

Yes It could work but not how you think. The Remnants on the West are old and don't care anymore. Both the Original Brotherhood and Enclave remnants in the west hate one another to much to work together.

Now what could work is the Midwestern Brotherhood under General Barnaky and the Enclave Remnants in Chicago and from DC.

My idea as to what happened to the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtXhuaTcohY after the end of Fallout Tactics. Based on the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ZcpcO7C58

===>
Spoiler

Way I see it. The MWBoS fight a bloody war against the Super Mutants and then the Calculator. They force settlements to aid them by giving food, ammo and their best and brightest. Many people do join willingly but the BoS treat them as cannon fodder. The Elders let mutations join because they can be very useful in places humans can't due to radiation.

Vault Zero falls to the BoS and Barnaky becomes one with the Calculator. The BoS are happy to have General Barnaky back. There is a push to make him the head Elder of the MWBoS. The famed warrior (you) who is also a General backs the move to make Barnaky the new head elder, which he does become.

He soon recalls all mutations from the BoS armies and orders them back to their home bases were they are disarmed and tagged, later to be sent to work camps. BoS stops letting mutations join. Laws are passed and any mutation within the BoS' territory is to be rounded up and also sent to camps (work/death camps) which are the start of the great betrayal.

Elders that were most against Barnaky becoming head elder are removed from power. Soon purges happen with in the BoS, anyone that was against Barnaky or seen to aid mutations are also sent to the camps, entire settlement get put to the flame. Soon the Mutant Liberation army forms. BoS caravans and outpost get hit, work camps are liberated, the BoS see a dramatic fall in people willing to join the BoS, and they start having desertions.

Human numbers are replaced more and more by calculator robots and more purges follow fearing an inside job. The BoS stop trying to contact the West in order to get their own house in order.

Biggest blow happens when rouge BoS members set off several bombs within Vault Zero in a failed coup d'état. Many of the calculators systems are damaged beyond repair. Barnaky lives but finds has less control over the robotic forces. He can't control them all at once and the ability to make more robots is severely hampered.

Mutant Liberation Army makes allies with what’s left of the Reaver movement and are supplied with EMP weapons. The remaining slaver/raider groups once again become strong and prey on BoS settlements and outposts.

Decades of bloody Guerrilla warfare against the MLA and the predation of other factions (slavers, raiders) have driven the MWBoS back to their remaining strongholds such as Vault Zero and Cities in between Colorado and Chicago.

Lyons and his BoS are sent out to make contact but don't really know where they are, they know the MWBoS went East, they took a path that takes them away from the MWBoS strongholds at Vault Zero and the others in the Midwest. As Lyons gets closer to DC he hears rumors of people that have similar tech and a symbol are in the area. Lyon spends a long time hunting down those rumors. MWBoS fearing that Lyons is just the tip of a larger army coming up from the south west, do what they can to not be found by them.

Lyons is persistent and soon the MWBoS send out a group of their own elders to make contact. They tell Lyons that MWBoS are just a few hundred men and women close to Chicago. Lyons having made contact goes on to the more important mission of heading to DC.

Like the Barnaky ending states it’s a war the Mutant Liberation Army is distended to lose. MWBoS have seen bitter defeat after bitter defeat for generations and are now a shadow of their glory days but time is on their side. Mutations can't reproduce and the ones that don't fall to the BoS will be taken care of by father time.
Humans, including former BoS that sided with the MLA grow tired of fighting, seeing as how they have crippled the MWBoS and liberated much of their territory. Most just want to settle and farm, the threat is all but gone (so they think). After generations of war, less and less of the younger generations take up the fight.

Maybe the MWBoS will find an ally in Augustus Autumn and his advanced tech can help the MWBoS take back what they lost."

"The hard times" I see for the Midwestern Brotherhood is a decades long war with the Mutant Liberation Army combined with a very paranoid General Barnaky that caused people to turn away from the BoS and ever rebel against the BoS. Along with Slavers, Raiders and Reavers rebuilding their power and causing problems.
The Calculator gets damaged so the Robot Army can't be controlled all at once and new Robots take longer to be built. The Brotherhood is forced back to strongholds across the Midwestern United States.

Midwestern BoS can't produce their own PA so not every member gets one. Only the elite get the best weapons and armour. That is fact.

My idea of how Enclave Remnants could play a role as a part of the Midwestern Brotherhood under General Barnaky.

===>
Spoiler
Enclave would have been worse off than the Midwestern BoS. After the destruction of the Oil Rig and the death of all Enclave leadership but for Eden, much of Enclave moved toward DC, to Raven Rock and Eden. On their way they stop in Chicago, where the Midwestern BoS surround them and make a deal.

The Midwestern Brotherhood, don't know about the Enclave because they left before the events of Fallout 2. They want the Enclave's tech but more so they want the knowledge behind the tech, to save them years of reverse engineering.

“Help us or die where you stand.” The Enclave takes the deal and move on to DC. Only a couple dozen scientists are left behind, which they were going to do any way. The Midwestern BoS give the Enclave supplies and a base in exchange for more advanced tech/weapons. Midwestern BoS make sure they are well guarded.

When Remnants come back from DC after they are once again defeated, they learn more about the Midwestern BoS under Barnaky and their goals. Some see this as a chance to regain some power. A deal is made for Enclave leaders to become elders and the Enclave to remain independent body with in the Brotherhood ranks. Like I.T guys for the Brotherhood.

They help out the scribes and so on developed weapons to fight the enemies of the BoS. The Mutant Liberation army being the most pressing, Enclave leaders now elders start doing what Enclave does best. Become a shadow government with the MWBoS and someday take total control.

Who knows, maybe the Enclave make a deal with Barnaky to help make humanity pure blood again like the Enclave. Maybe that was Augustus' idea all along and why he went against Eden. Maybe he wanted to find a way to make waste landers pure through genetic engineering or breeding. Now he has a willing leader, Barnaky. That is willing to let the Enclave experiment to make humanity pure again, think about it people.


I am not asking for Fallout 4 to be focused on the Midwestern Brotherhood, but we all know there will be BoS somewhere in the game and I want those BoS to be Midwestern Brotherhood under General Barnaky. Even if we don't see General Barnaky, I would like mention of him as well as the Mutant Liberation Army, as well as the events I mentioned.

Having the Enclave remnants as part of it all, is optional.

Also the Calculator army didn’t all come from Vault Zero. The Calculator sent out robot, and they came across pre-war factories as well as a nuclear power plant. Using them the Calculator expanded its army to a large size. The Midwestern Brotherhood destroyed those factories and took the power plant offline.
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Prisca Lacour
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 10:17 pm

With the threat of the NCR hunting down the Brother Hood members and Enclave remnants could they start an alliance to fight the NCR, could they put all the [censored] aside to help each other ?

With the MWBOS? Perhaps.

With the Western BOS? No chance in hell. What Enclave remnants remain in the west want nothing to do with the BOS. Likewise the BOS would likely want nothing to do with the Remnants.
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noa zarfati
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 10:19 pm

People got here before me; With the Midewestern Brotherhood maybe they would.
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Karine laverre
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 9:54 pm

Only if the remnants are willing to basically abandon everything "Enclave-y" - remember the BOS are effectively traitors having mutinied in their "origin story", and the MWBOS recruits all kinds of mutants.
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Kelly Osbourne Kelly
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 11:38 pm

I don't think the Remnants would really do anything. The ones in New Vegas view NCR as the best bet for the Wastes, minus Oreno. Plus, they're old, they just want to live out their days in quiet peace.
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Peetay
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 12:54 pm

Yeah, there just a bunch of old people now, besides there's resentment and even after 30 years the Remnants in New Vegas don't exactly object to taking on the NCR for a bit of payback; except the [censored] Johnson of course but there you go.
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celebrity
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 11:03 pm

Only if the remnants are willing to basically abandon everything "Enclave-y" - remember the BOS are effectively traitors having mutinied in their "origin story", and the MWBOS recruits all kinds of mutants.

We don't know that for sure. The Brotherhood themselves would be mutant in the eyes of the Enclave, but not all the endings to Fallout Tactics have the Brotherhood letting in ghouls and Super Mutants. The Barnaky Ending for example has the MWBoS hunting down and killing ghouls, super mutants as well as other mutations and those that side with them.

Ghouls, Super Mutants and other mutations only join the Brotherhood, depending on how you play the game.
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Alan Whiston
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 11:50 pm

We don't know that for sure. The Brotherhood themselves would be mutant in the eyes of the Enclave, but not all the endings to Fallout Tactics have the Brotherhood letting in ghouls and Super Mutants. The Barnaky Ending for example has the MWBoS hunting down and killing ghouls, super mutants as well as other mutations and those that side with them.

Ghouls, Super Mutants and other mutations only join the Brotherhood, depending on how you play the game.
Well they still would be abandonning everything related to the Enclave, the actual Enclave itself for one thing given that they are allying with the Brotherhood of Steel - which we can assume would be the larger organisation in the Barknay ending.
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Justin Hankins
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 4:19 pm

Well they still would be abandonning everything related to the Enclave, the actual Enclave itself for one thing given that they are allying with the Brotherhood of Steel - which we can assume would be the larger organisation in the Barknay ending.

For an Enclave fan you seem to over look the Enclave using other factions in the past. The Enclave in Fallout 2 had no problem using/working with the Salvatore Family. Enclave would go to San Francisco and New Reno. (at least I think San Fran)

It would not be completely abandoning everything Enclave to use another Faction to gain power. The MWBoS Enclave alliance, could be that the Enclave remnants simply act as tech support for the MWBoS. Left alone to do their own thing under the protection of the MWBoS. Some Enclave could become Elders within the MWBoS and they could have influence on what they do. It could take decades but in the end its better than rotting in a hole somewhere waiting to die off like the Orginal Brotherhood.

The Enclave in the past have had no problem at all interacting with wastelanders, and after the Rig blew up. I am sure they weren't in are position to fight off a group like the MWBoS. Cut a deal with them an move on to DC, and after DC, all they would have left is Chicago. So its bite the bullet and work with the MWBoS or slowly and pathetically die out in a hole in the ground.
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Benito Martinez
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 1:19 am

For an Enclave fan you seem to over look the Enclave using other factions in the past. The Enclave in Fallout 2 had no problem using/working with the Salvatore Family. Enclave would go to San Francisco and New Reno. (at least I think San Fran)

It would not be completely abandoning everything Enclave to use another Faction to gain power. The MWBoS Enclave alliance, could be that the Enclave remnants simply act as tech support for the MWBoS. Left alone to do their own thing under the protection of the MWBoS. Some Enclave could become Elders within the MWBoS and they could have influence on what they do. It could take decades but in the end its better than rotting in a hole somewhere waiting to die off like the Orginal Brotherhood.

The Enclave in the past have had no problem at all interacting with wastelanders, and after the Rig blew up. I am sure they weren't in are position to fight off a group like the MWBoS. Cut a deal with them an move on to DC, and after DC, all they would have left is Chicago. So its bite the bullet and work with the MWBoS or slowly and pathetically die out in a hole in the ground.
That's because what your describing is just Enclave survivors joining the MWBoS, with some of them potentially becoming card-carry Elders no less. There was really no need for the speech because my point was merely that the Enclave as an organisation would still be gone. Sharing ideologies - for somewhat different reasons as we've already acknowledged before - doesn't really mean all that much.

Say Marcus joined the NCR Rangers, it would be like calling that a NCR-Unity alliance.
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Yama Pi
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 12:13 am

That's because what your describing is just Enclave survivors joining the MWBoS, with some of them potentially becoming card-carry Elders no less. There was really no need for the speech because my point was merely that the Enclave as an organisation would still be gone. Sharing ideologies - for somewhat different reasons as we've already acknowledged before - doesn't really mean all that much.

Say Marcus joined the NCR Rangers, it would be like calling that a NCR-Unity alliance.

You are right there was no need for such speech and I am sorry. I agree that it wouldn't be the same Enclave, but one could make the case that the Enclave in Fallout 3 weren't like the Enclave in Fallout 2. They became more isolationist, militaristic and aside from a note Autumn made, completely unquestioning. (Mostly due to very bad writing). I am not even asking for all the Enclave remnants to work with the MWBoS. It could just be some Enclave like how some Enclave after the fall of Navarro tried to start new lives in NCR.

The Enclave could have had some relationship with the MWBoS, before they lost Raven Rock and AAFB, and after they learned of what happened, they could have said "to hell with this." And joined the MWBoS or at least allied with them.

Either way the Enclave is pretty much dead as a faction and I am sure you and I can both agree on that. My idea is just one way in which I would have no problem seeing future Enclave, on a small scale working with another Faction. Hell we could run into other remnants that call them traitors.
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Noely Ulloa
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 7:55 pm

You are right there was no need for such speech and I am sorry. I agree that it wouldn't be the same Enclave, but one could make the case that the Enclave in Fallout 3 weren't like the Enclave in Fallout 2. They became more isolationist, militaristic and aside from a note Autumn made, completely unquestioning. (Mostly due to very bad writing). I am not even asking for all the Enclave remnants to work with the MWBoS. It could just be some, Enclave like how some Enclave after the fall of Navarro tried to start new lives in NCR.

No need to apologise, nothing was wrong; it just wasn't what I was contesting. Don't blame you really - we have had this discussion before.

Either way the Enclave is pretty much dead as a faction and I am sure you and I can both agree on that. My idea is just one way in which I would have no problem seeing future Enclave, on a small scale working with another Faction. Hell we could run into other remnants that call them traitors.

I guess, I just worry about introducing any new lore related to them period. New Vegas made the remnants total pussies that contradicted massively what we see in Fallout 2, lazy way to make them look like good guys.
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Noraima Vega
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 8:16 pm

I guess, I just worry about introducing any new lore related to them period. New Vegas made the remnants total pussies that contradicted massively what we see in Fallout 2, lazy way to make them look like good guys.

I wouldn't mind never seeing anything to do with them again. Its just we know that there is/was an outpost(s) in Chicago and I doubt Bethesda will just never mention them again, since they were such a huge part of Fallout 3. Still some loose ends to tie up.

Unless Bethesda simply says "Lyons BoS hunted down and killed them all" and "Chicago Outpost(s) fell to the MWBoS" and no further questions asked. Those are some plot holes I wouldn't complain about.
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Eoh
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 1:50 am

I wouldn't mind never seeing anything to do with them again. Its just we know that there is/was an outpost(s) in Chicago and I doubt Bethesda will just never mention them again, since they were such a huge part of Fallout 3. Still some loose ends to tie up.

Unless Bethesda simply says "Lyons BoS hunted down and killed them all" and "Chicago Outpost(s) fell to the MWBoS" and no further questions asked. Those are some plot holes I wouldn't complain about.
Nor I really. I just want the Enclave done with once and for all; it's a pain enough in the [censored] making the current lore work.
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The Time Car
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 9:45 pm

There is one possibility your not considering in this alliance Styles. Assume for a moment the ghouls, the mutants and other impure mutants eventually rose up and destroyed most of Barkley's faction after a very brutal conflict. Then its not the Enclave who joined the MWBoS but the other way around. Or they could merge and form some third named faction.

I wouldn't mind never seeing anything to do with them again. Its just we know that there is/was an outpost(s) in Chicago and I doubt Bethesda will just never mention them again, since they were such a huge part of Fallout 3. Still some loose ends to tie up.

I don't think Fallout 3 left any lose ends with the Enclave. Raven's Rock and the basecrawler destroyed we could have reasoned the Enclave were defeated all that remained being scattered soliders. New Vegas let the genie out of the bottle with the mention of an Enclave outpost in Chicago. I also agree with The Enclave it be nice to see and ending to the faction.

Unless they start manufacturing soliders they should have very little man power at this point.
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KIng James
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 5:05 pm

There is one possibility your not considering in this alliance Styles. Assume for a moment the ghouls, the mutants and other impure mutants eventually rose up and destroyed most of Barkley's faction after a very brutal conflict. Then its not the Enclave who joined the MWBoS but the other way around.

I guess you could look at it that way, but if the MWBoS under Barnaky still control large towns/cities such as Chicago, than they would be more than a match for a couple hundred Enclave. I picture the MWBoS only having a dozen or so stronghold locations from Chicago to Vault Zero. Lost everything else to the MLA, Raiders and other groups.

I wouldn't want the MWBoS to be so badly defeated that there is only a small group in Chicago.

I don't think Fallout 3 left any lose ends with the Enclave. Raven's Rock and the basecrawler destroyed we could have reasoned the Enclave were defeated all that remained being scattered soliders. New Vegas let the genie out of the bottle with the mention of an Enclave outpost in Chicago. I also agree with The Enclave it be nice to see and ending to the faction.

Unless they start manufacturing soliders they should have very little man power at this point.

I agree Fallout New Vegas gave the Enclave a lifeline with Chicago. It would have been easy to say the remaining Enclave were hunted down by Lyons or the Outcast. Still we aren't sure what happened to Augustus and there was talk of Enclave "out scouting in the field" or something like that.

Bethesda would have had to give the "Ok" for Chicago Outpost(s) would they not? So that right there could be a sign that Bethesda wasn't going to let them completely die. Could also be a hint at Fallout 4 location :shifty:
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ShOrty
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 10:42 am

With the threat of the NCR hunting down the Brother Hood members and Enclave remnants could they start an alliance to fight the NCR, could they put all the [censored] aside to help each other ?

Well first off, depending on how you choose the fate of New Vegas, you can make a truce with the NCR and the BoS. Second, the Remnants are old and done with the Enclave. They are just hiding out from persecution of the NCR. But either way, I would rather see the Outcasts make some sort of truce with the Enclave, I think it would make a better story.
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Mistress trades Melissa
 
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Post » Thu May 03, 2012 1:29 am

Well first off, depending on how you choose the fate of New Vegas, you can make a truce with the NCR and the BoS. Second, the Remnants are old and done with the Enclave. They are just hiding out from persecution of the NCR. But either way, I would rather see the Outcasts make some sort of truce with the Enclave, I think it would make a better story.

Why would the Outcasts do that? Also in the end of Fo3 (w/broken steel) the east coast enclave is completely destroyed.
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Darren
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 10:26 pm

Well first off, depending on how you choose the fate of New Vegas, you can make a truce with the NCR and the BoS.

Not entirely accurate. A ceasefire is arranged between the NCR and Mojave chapter and indeed cemented with mutually beneficial terms but it's not an end to the war by any account - not even between the Mojave BoS and the NCR. The rest of the BoS will still be fighting the NCR and I really can't imagine them looking on this too favourably. Standard practice with Brotherhood bunkers is made clear in New Vegas, when they are assaulted they are self-destructed with all hands, and whilst Hidden Valley was never directly threatened by the NCR Elder McNamara certainly abandonned Brotherhood doctrine in doing what he did; fratanising with the enemy, assisting the enemy in a time of war, desertion etc. Not disagreeing with what McNamara did, saved his men's lives; but he doesn't speak for the Brotherhood as a whole.

Second, the Remnants are old and done with the Enclave. They are just hiding out from persecution of the NCR. But either way, I would rather see the Outcasts make some sort of truce with the Enclave, I think it would make a better story.

In Broken Steel the Outcasts kill some Enclave who are surrendering un-conditionally, no truce there.
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Matt Bigelow
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 3:42 pm

In Broken Steel the Outcasts kill some Enclave who are surrendering un-conditionally, no truce there.

This. They are equally hostile bastards.
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Matt Gammond
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 5:18 pm

This. They are equally hostile bastards.

But the Midwestern Brotherhood could be very open to the Enclave :deal:
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Allison Sizemore
 
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