Except the BoS members who survive the destruction of Hidden Valley are going to be the greatest threat. Most if not all the BoS members who are out in the wasteland are covert ops agents, precisely the type of people who can infiltrate the Lucky 38 and assassinate House.



The point is that there's no reason why the BoS can't revert to a more benevolent state. The fact that the crazy isolationists took over and drove the entire organization into the ground should allow the more moderate members to gain some support.

Your arguement assumes a position of strength for the Brotherhood. Hypothetically, if the Courier were loyal to House and destroys the Hidden Valley bunker, there's two flaws. We cannot assume it was House because if you took a route I did, IE using stealthboys, you could hack the HV turrets to kill the BoS and they'd be none the wiser who did it, then sneak into the bunker core and destroy the Self Destruct terminal. If you used subterfuge, they'd never know if it was an agent of House, Caesar, or Kimball, all three want them gone and forgotten.

Back to my point though, The Hidden Valley base destroyed, and all of it's key figures in the Mojave Chapter buried under hundreds of tons of concrete, steel, and various components, who else is left to functionally organize them? Based on the endslides, about the only people outside the bunker were light patrols, which barely left hidden valleys borders. I'd imagine that it's easy to say 10-15 BoS were left, and even then it was said in the end slides that some tried to absorb themselves into ordinary lives or join other chapters.

The Brotherhood isnt the powerhouse it was in the days of yore, the war with NCR has isolated and weakened them to a point where all it takes to knock them off is numbers, Caesar has done this, and so has NCR.

Well, the reason is the developers obviously don't want the Brotherhood lasting... soooooooo arguing the point in the first place is silly.

They might. The Brotherhood has become somewhat iconic to the series. It's an interesting faction in that it's undergone a lot of dynamic changes and shifts in power base, size, productivity, and interpretation over the many years of the Fallout franchise, in fact other than minor factional disagreements, they're the ONLY faction that's undergone so many changes unless you count "being wiped out" as a series of changes rather than just one really.. final one.

As I said in another thread, I'm sick of them, personally. But I wouldn't count them out entirely. It's been fun riding the franchise since the original Fallout and seeing them change with every game. I'd love to see a game where every "version" of the Brotherhood meets up with the others and they have a huge interior policy debate / civil war of sorts.

lol, they're a bunch of dumb asses in space marine outfits. There's nothing complex or interesting about them.

I wouldn't say the Brotherhood has been an Icon of the game, more so... Power Armor.

Even that's fading. In New Vegas, it's the Ranger Armor that's pasted everywhere.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Royez may suggest that the NCR military will eventually be equiped with energy weapons and functioning Power Armor. The writers do seem like they intend to kill off the BoS. They didnt have to have the hardliners take over but they did.

Except that it won't be difficult for the BoS survivors to figure out that who engineered the destruction of Hidden Valley when House easily crushes all opposition and takes over the entire Mojave.

As for the BoS no longer being a significant military force, that doesn't matter. They don't need to fight a full scale war against House's Securitrons, all they need to do is assassinate House.



Just because they've weakened the BoS does not mean they don't like the BoS. Every faction has been weakened from FO2 and Van Buren. NCR troops had heavy weapons and combat armor in FO2 and they were practically at pre-war level of technology in Van Buren but they're much weaker in NV. Does that mean the developers hate the NCR too? Also, even if Obsidian doesn't like the BoS, Bethesda does and Bethesda controls the franchise.

One, Van Buren is not canon, it is a canceled game that has influenced FO3 and NV (particularly NV).
Two, while all but two endings have the possibility that the Mojave BoS die (Independant and NCR) I don't see the BoS going away for good. It seems to me that the devs are playing around with the whole "isolation=death though the Codex says isolation" mindset. With people like Veronica being introduced it shows not all the (Western) BoS are blind. We already see through Tactics and FO3 what can happen when the BoS relaxes their beliefs a little bit. While we don't know what the canon ending for Tactics is, Lyons's BoS seems to be the dominant power of the East Coast (or at least has a good chance to be).

I don't see the BoS as a whole disappearing. Something might happen where most in the West die (or leave), but I only see those in the East going up from here (for now anyway).

And how would you go about this? just wander into the strip (you need 2000 caps or an NCR passport to do that, also only the courier and the three families are allowed weapons) then just walk into the Lucky 38 (only the courier is allowed in) fight all those securitrons guarding the entrance, take the lift (if it isn't already shut off) to the penthouse, fight the securitrons there, then hack the terminal allowing access to the hidden room (again assuming it isn't deactivated), fight the securitrons there, then hack the terminal allowing you to access the lift (assuming that the terminal has not been taken offline) then take the lift down (again assuming the lift has not been deactivated). And all the while House will be calling in the securitrons from the strip and bringing some from the basemant, the three families might be called on or even the Courier to defend House.

Then after doing this they have to get out alive...

Securitron, you're signature is hilarious.

They're not just some random wastelanders with no skills or equipment. The BoS has cover ops teams who are trained in infiltration, espionage, and subterfuge. They have stealth technology. Who says they need to fight at all?

It's not that difficult to get into the Stripe undetected, Vulpes Inculta did it. The Securitrons can be hacked. Yes Man was created by a single Follower of the Apocalypse and the BoS have much greater expertise dealing with encryption and military grade computers. Capturing a Securitron will give them access to the Securitron network and information on the Lucky 38's layout. If they can't find alternate entrances, they could just monitor the Courier's movements and sneak in using stealthboys when the Courier is either entering or exiting the Lucky 38. They don't need to hack the lifts to get the Presidential Suites, all they need to do is use the emergency stairs or climb up the elevator shaft if there are no stairs. They can go undetected either with the help of stealthboys or by causing a power disruption. They don't need to escape after they kill House since they would have control over all his Securitrons with House's computer.

None of that sounds like something the Brotherhood is capable of doing competently (and climb up the elevator shaft? You don't think House would have a way of detecting unauthorized movement in the Lucky 38?)

And I wouldn't be surprised if House has some anti-stealthboy defense system of some kind.

Caesar's legion has the strongest currency in the wasteland, Vulpes could easily muster up 2000 caps to get in, the Frumentarii also have people in high places to get him a fake passport, the BOS has neither of these and I’m pretty sure the codex isn't too endorsing of selling off equipment or providing help to wastelanders.

For Benny it was easier to capture a securitron, House only had a handful of Mark 1 securitrons, in this situation he would have an army of mark 2 securitrons.

About the stealthboys, they were created by House's company; he would know how to combat them, also to do what you’re saying they would have to have a ridiculous amount of stealthboys and while the Mojave chapter may have had a large number of stealthboys, their base is buried in rubble. As for a power disruption, the Lucky 38 has its own reactor.

Also, sneaking in behind the Courier, the same courier who singlehandedly destroyed the rest of the BOS?

As for getting out alive, the BOS cannot just take control, you need the platinum chip to reset the administrator.

Infrared?

That doesn't mean House didn't detect him. House wants Caesar's Legion to continue to pose a threat enough to keep the NCR busy. Arcade Gannon even comments on Vulpes presence on the Strip, mentioning that either House knows about Vulpes or he does not, and how both options worry him. House himself will ask you not to harm Caesar when you go to the Fort.

Hell, if you kill House and tell him you did it for Yes Man, House's reply implies he knew about Yes Man all along.

Really? What exactly does he say? And how does he role with Caesars death?

he says "your vanity project is doomed to failure" not the words of someone who has no idea what you're on about

also if you kill Caesar i can't really remember House's immediate reaction, but it does make him wrongly predict the tactics of the legion at the battle of hoover dam

Indeed, if infrared can detect someone wearing a stealth-boy (I assume it can though).

We aren't really privy to the exact specifics of the technology behind a stealth boy so perhaps it could somehow make someone invisible to infrared detection (be it thermal or what have you).

I can't quote it word to word, but House says something on par with how Caesars death will shape the battle for Hoover Dam minimaly if at all and that Caesars Legion by the end of the year will have him defied and try to take the Dam in his memory. He also says with Lanius it is hard to predict what a brutal and unpredictible man such as he would do, but he says wave assaults and swarming tactics are the kind of things one could expect of such a man.

Edit @ Andronicus- The thing is the stealthboy doesnt make you INVISIBLE, but rather it works like cloaking technology, it scrambles the surrounding environments lightrays and 'bounces' them off. In well lit environments, one can see a user of a stealthboy, but in dim/dark environments you can blend in well because theres no real way to reflect darkness aside from darkness. As to infrared, I'd imagine that's just proposterous, it'd be near magical for a small minipipboy to somehow cloak your heat signature. Of course, some of the tech in Fallout is never explained yet does marvels, so who am I to argue what it can and cannot do.

I seem to remember reading the tech was based on bending and/or reflecting light, but don't recall any mention on it covering thermal detection too.

To The Vault...

e-
On a quick glance, couldn't find anything more specific than this (yay, my memory worked for once) -- which I'm sure you already knew.

Doesn't look like it would prevent someone from seeing them through thermal imaging

I agree.

But in a world where vending machines can make food from casino chips, its really hard to say.

Except the BoS has procurement specialists, Veronica is one of them, who are able to acquire resources and technology not available to the BoS. It'll also be much easier for them to steal and scavenge the resources after the war while the Legion and NCR are in retreat. The NCR and Legion can't take everything with them so there are going to be supply caches hidden all over the place. Fleeing NCR and Legion troops will be easy picking. Not to mention the fact that there's going to be equipment scattered all over the place from the battle. The Mojave is going to be filled with dead soldiers, as well as their guns and armor, and House's securitrons won't be able to clean up the mess until after they've made sure the area is secure. That gives BoS procurement specialists plenty of time to strip the best equipment off of dead soldiers.



Funny how Benny managed to capture a securitron when House only had a handful of them and he didn't notice when one went missing from right under his nose.

House does have a lot more securitrons than before but again, this is after the war. Some securitrons had to have been either destroyed or damaged during the fighting. That gives the BoS survivors plenty of opportunities to gather securitron parts and capture damaged securitrons.



House clearly doesn't have very good defenses since the Courier can use them to sneak into his inner sanctum. As for the stealthboys that would be needed, how is that a big problem? The Nightkin have regularly used them for over 100 years. You really think the BoS survivors can't get enough to use for a whole day?



So? The Courier doesn't have X-Ray vision.



The chip is already in House's computer.



And that shows he's fallible. He underestimated Inculta and Yes Man. Also, if he knew about Yes Man, why was he surprised about Benny's betrayal?