Ah, but Ghouls were once human with the ability to successfully reproduce a fertile offspring, but, do to said affliction, can no longer reproduce. So you guys are saying Mr. House isnt human? That device on his dong prevents reproduction, and you guys only seem to care of matters superficial. The Ghoul skin condition means they aren't human? Burn wards, I visit one often to talk to people in pain, help distract them, they are human.

GUYS
successful reproduction of fertile offspring is the ONLY legitimate characteristic of a species! Lifespan means NOTHING, appearances mean NOTHING.

Thats not what we are saying. The lesions on the skin of a ghoul are not a result of burns. It occurs because the very fabric of their DNA has been altered. I think we can all agree that Mr. House is somewhat of a rarity. Im not sure what he is. "Is he indeed still human?" is a very good question.

Ghouls live to be 200+ because something has changed in them to make them non-human. If what you are saying is true then super mutants, swamp folk, feral and non-feral ghouls are all still human. Which is frankly....wrong.

Lifespan means something.....it means their DNA has been altered.....humans don't live that long.

In real life. If a person lived to be 250 years old. I would DEFINETLY question whether that person was human. you are working under a definition of a categorization which doesn't necessarily apply to the fallout universe. We have nothing to compare a ghoul to in our lives today.

To be fair Mako Vlazkov alot of people in the Wasteland hate Ghouls. BoS kill them on site and pretty much every settlement kills them. There are exections yes. FO Tactics and New Vegas people even have six with them. NCR likes Ghouls.

Even is technically they are just sick humans most people in the wasteland would see them as Mutants. Mostly because they are living walking corpses. FO2 there is one with thousands of flies living with in his body.

Edit: So both BoS and Enclave would be racist.

mr house isnt human hes a robot but who said he cant?

He is human just hooked into a giant machine/computer network.

Surely an Enclave member was on the Cabinet right? I know we cannot confirm but come on. Then after the bombs fell he could become Acting President through the Line of Succession. That is if the pre-war President wasn't part of the Enclave, I really believe that he will have been but am too tired to explain.

gahhh now this needs to be moved to spoilers lol

You are saying that the Enclave was/is the government correct? I totally agree with you. I was merely using the senario Styles provided me (ie. the Enclave was seperate from the government).

All "mutants" were born human, slightly irradiated or not, as it was born. All changes afterward are secondary, Super Mutants are hyper-evolved and are neither humans (Do to drastic change in DNA, much more drastic than ghouls) nor a separate species (Sterile)

Ghouls are human with drastic radiation sickness. Wastelanders all have a minor form of radiation sickness, but, as explained before, are still human, ghouls are in the same boat as wastelanders, and wastelanders in the same boat as "pure" humans.

Brotherhood also kill Ghouls so this debate about ghoul killing being racist is moot when it comes down to BOS vs Enclave. They both kill ghouls.

Topic is not about Ghouls.

I have always been of the belief that the Enclave is the government, an secret cabal within the government and military-industrial complex which actually brokers all the power. Whether the Pre-War President was apart of it, well actually I'm not too sure really. But the way the Oil Rig was set out with all the seals and the Cabinet Room, War Room, it was a Continuity of Government location, designed to become the center for the Government/Enclave after the bombs.

Now the only real thing which I can't decide on is would the President necessarily be a part? On the one hand if they broker the power, they can likely just get around him, use various fronts and such or just abuse his trust to achieve and authorise there goals, if the Enclave really did hold all the pre-war power why should they need the President? On the other-hand, if they wielded so much power, who's to say they couldn't just appoint anyone they wanted? Surely that would be easier than keeping it a secret from the President, the President has the authority to do and request anything right? Why wouldn't it make sense for the Enclave to just manipulate and install at least high ranking members (forgot about the whole limited terms thing which would obviously affect the Enclave if the President was also in charge of them).

I wasn't disagreeing with your post, just indicating I was talking to you, it's late and I didn't really read what post I clicked, more just the one you were responding too in that post.

The term "evolved" would imply that they are no longer of the same species. Whatever they were before has no reflection on what they are now. As I said, we have absolutely nothing to compare this sort of thing to in real life. Nothing like the FEV to force-evolve something. Our definition of what a species is has no consequence in fallout. If you would go up to a mutant and ask "hi are you human" he would say "no".

Drastic radiation sickness is also a term that really means nothing. In real life, radiation sickness eventually kills. It doesn't turn people into ghouls. So again we have no comparison to say that they are truly "still human".

ah understood. I see that now. I just wanted to make sure you weren't thinking that I didn't believe the Enclave was the American government. :thumbsup:

Can we drop the discussion on ghouls, please? They're not targeted due to their genetics, they're targeted because when they go feral they're a threat to everyone nearby. Super mutants are similarly a threat, and a similar approach applies.

The only relevance ghouls and super mutants have is that they caused the Enclave to decide that all mutants must be destroyed.

Yes I agree this has gone waaayy off topic.

So anyway. The brotherhood drools, Enclave rules.

I would contest that by talking about radiation affects of the general populace and once again "pure" not just being a Nazi thing but it is OT so ok.

Long Live the Enclave!

But we do have radiation sickness in real life, so just imagine it DID do that, it is still just radiation sickness, and being sick doesn't make anyone non-human.

@Styles
:o YOUR RIGHT! Since they both kill ghouls and the topic is about them, TOPIC IS RACI-- nevermind.

I'm done now, I still like the Enclave more, just call me patriotic.

again. we are arguing about something that is a least hard to compare to in real life and is way off topic so....

How bout a truce? :icecream: I'd rather the Enclave not get in a scrap with Talon Company anyway.

By the way....how much would it cost for Talon company to say.....wipe the brotherhood off the face of the map.... :angel:

Can't be done, the Talon Company is not strong enough, hell, the Enclave wasn't strong enough. The Talon Company is somewhere between, in a measure of strength vs size, NCR (Quantity over Quality) and the Enclave (Quality over Quantity)

Well it's not that the Enclave prefer quality over quantity, it's just that quantity is out of the question, or at least should have been. :rolleyes:

dang it.....I was really counting on TC... :dry:

Yeah, I understand, it's expensive to make enough gear, and difficult to recruit enough soldiers. Hmm, Talon Company is, in some ways, a lot like the Enclave, just aggro-capitalist, not aggro-fascist.

Talon is nothing like Enclave...one is a mercenary group, the other is a government in exile; one's motive is gain bottle caps, the other is to restore America.

Still, treading people with different tiny deviation in DNA is Racist. BoS's bigotry is even worst as they don't even try to check your DNA.

Tabitha refers to humans in the third person. She would not do this if she was a human.



Tabitha warns humans to stay away from Black Mountain, why would she do that if the Nightkin were human?