Important events in Tactics are canon.

Thats why I call MWBoS a Wild Card. Bethesda has said the "High-Level" Events of Tactics are Canon. They just have not said what they mean by "High-Level." I would guess it means that the story is canon. That the BoS did build air convoy and sent those wanting change on a mission to follow the masters army east. It ran into a storm and some crashed outside Chicago. There was a Calculator and Vault Zero. MWBoS are confirmed because they were mentioned in FO3. Bethesda would be crazy to write them off as a small rogue group in Chicago. They have been there for 79 years before start of FO3.

They do control settlements. They do let in outsiders but at the lowes rank. Not all have power armour just the elite units and generals. The bulk make do with other types of armour. They have fallen on "Hard Times." Alot of things can happen to them in 79 years.

There's the HQ at Lost Hill and if it falls some day, I'm sure we'll be there to see it.

Enclave, on the other end, we had plenty of. We used most mass genocide tactics on them (nuked them, released a bio-weapon on them, convinced their A.I leader to self-destruct base, sent a giant robot to kick'em out, even called down an orbital strike on them.) But I'm getting off-topic.

Who would win in a fight? Enclave would kick Brotherhood's fusion powered ass to the moon. Until FO2, BoS always thought they were the kings of wasteland. Then comes Enclave and they come crying to Chosen One "their toys are shinier then ours".

On a debate of mentality, they're both remnants of the old world, thinking "We're the salvation of human race". Irony is that they'd kill half the continent if it meant they'd have a genetically clean world (Enclave) or an extra laser pistol (Brotherhood).

Self note: God, if they add another self-righteous, full-of-honor faction to the game, I'm gonna shoot'em all dead before they can say a single word.

Thanks for the info.

PA lemmings, drawn to self destruction.

Very true.

If you have not yet you never will, already done this many times to many factions.

The BoS dosnt just horde tech, they make sure it dosnt fall into the wrong hands. Also making sure that they find tech to help the Mojave. Imagine the NCR or legion gets a few tanks or a supernuke, will that help the Mojave or not? The Enclave are just a bunch of old men trying to hold on to there power. Basically killing innocent people who were mutated, and using incredibly ruthless tactics toget there power. They are the same as the legion in that respect. As defender Casdin said "Collecting the last few embers of civilisation before the fire dies out completly"

And they are open to change, the fact that the BoS is capable of making an alliance with the NCR who they had lost half there members too, is proof of that

BoS forever!

YEaaaaaano.

The BoS are still hiding in the bunkers, without the Courier they are still hiding, hogging, worshipping, and stealing.

They also have lasted longer then they should have, pretty much the same 'old men' that were 'holding onto their power' you talked about.

This.

The Brotherhood will kick the Enclaves butt! Why? Cuz the GOOD GUYS ALWAYS WIN!!

So then....ENCLAVE WINS!! Woohoo!

Forgot making love to technology AWW YEAH ;p.Was missing that to solidfy their obcession with tech

What a great argument you presented. I am now Enclave.

They really don't care about other people. They are just bunch of paranoid pussies who are afraid that someone might use that tech to kill them.

Excellent. Weekly meetings are located in places which are announced typically a week in advance (we've been using the Chicago Outposts quite frequently now, can't seem to get reservations anywhere else) and typically run from 5:30-8:00pm (wasteland standard time). You can see the quartermaster for your power armor and laser rifle and pistol. Welcome to the 'clave.

The NDR (New Dave Republic) will soon crush them both. :laugh:

Not really. They had just lost half there members to a fight with the NCR, who has a huge army and more than twice the recourses than the brotherhood. They arnt cowards, you would have to be an idiot not to hide in a bunker and gain there strength.

And i dont know what you mean by lasting longer than they should have.

Enclave are dead on both coasts, the BOS was part of the US military originally but rebelled because of reasons I can't remember, all I know is they know when [censored] is going down. They will make a comeback.

I'll be back with more supporting reasons.

If going on just an in game thinga me jig, and not on Lore or fan fiction.

I'd side with the ones wearing power armour and weilding energy weapons.
For the reason that those are the best items in game to play around with in a sandbox game.

After Fallout 3 these discussions come up a lot and typically revolve around who would kick the other's [censored] better;probably because they cannot be compared in any other respect, the Enclave has objectives, the BoS really unless I have been missing something doesn't.

Let's get through some of the common mis-conceptions and other things surrounding the Enclave:

The Enclave and You!

The Fallout 3 representation of the Enclave was appaling to say the least, piss poor and often contradictory of Fallout 2, for my full thoughts on Bethesda's failings see http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1158312-does-the-enclave-remind-you-of-anithing/page__view__findpost__p__17040811.

Just who is the Enclave?

The Enclave is the official remnant of the US Government, as me and Lt. Andronicus have discussed to some detail. Now, the full working of the US Government is beyond the pale of a simple Englishmen like myself, but there is a system of Government through which the powers of the President are passed down; the Presidential Line of succession and failing that just plain voting among US citizens aboard the Oil Rig. Being born on continental America doesn't mean didely [censored], the US government does not seem to grant them citizenship which is even referenced in some of the brillient Enclave Patrolmen dialouge, "You're an illegal alien on Enclave territory. Proposition 312 orders us to shoot on sight." Besides, any who would argue that the wastelanders are US citizens because they are born in America, aren't you repecting the Enclave's legitimacy as the US Government and their right to rule? If they're a US Citizen because they're born in American territory as defined by the government, then surely the Enclave has the right to govern, which nobody accepts anyway.

The US Government doesn't just cease to exist because they have less power or influence surely, the power and legitamacy is passed down through the generations.

"Pure-Humanism" and "Mutants"

This is my one major peeve about people who critise the Enclave, people sometimes just seem to think the Enclave is OCD about having everyone's gene's pure or that they're just dikes for the sake of being dikes; I contest this strongly. I suppose in a game where the term "mutant" is bandied about alot people are going to get the wrong idea, here is a Fallout example of the more realistic repocussions of radiation to quell any who would just say "SCIENCE!, in Fallout rads are different and make things grow!"

In Fallout 2, a community which actually quite resembles the Enclave, Vault City, has been exposed for an indeterminate amount of time to radiation from a newly actived but not very efficient or safe, nuclear power station. The radiation has been leaking from the plant, which is operated by ghouls, and into the groundwater which Vault City obviously gets it's water from. Though the actual repocussions have been classified it is possible to discover that infertility and other such "chromosal damage" has taken place, induced by radiation. This is a realistic example of what gradual exposure to radiation can cause, even in the zany world of Fallout.

The common wastelanders are decendants of those who survived the Great War and who will have been exposed to high levels of radiation, who knows what kind of problems are experienced, all kinds of nasty birth defects and genetic diseases which I personally don't want to think about. The Enclave have not been affected by the radiation, they were sealed aboard the Oil Rig and have maintained their own populace amongst themselves, the dangers of fallout and ingesting radiation have long since gone from the air at least and the Enclave seems to have it's own source of food and water so the Enclave is safe from environmental threats but cannot comprimise the integerity of their genes by allowing wastelanders in, however sympathetic.

When people seem to hear the term "pure" they think of Nazi Germany and such but really it's mainly just the need to survive and not comprimise, mutantations are not just Ghouls and Super Mutants people!

The Enclave are CommieNazis!

Many people really don't get the Enclave's actual goal, they just assume their facsists or something, up until Fallout 3 the Enclave had elections for the President (again see http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1158312-does-the-enclave-remind-you-of-anithing/page__view__findpost__p__17040811), after wiping out the mutants the Enclave would, most probably after some decades, eventually begining re-establishing a proper government and eventually after centuries maybe a proper civilisation. From then on after the Enclave begins rebuilding, every human being will be born in a clean, equiped ward, they're will be no fighting amongst tribes or power hungry governments because none will exist anywhere across the entire world. Only one Enclave, one human race, all progressing and building forward. Now whether Old World values are really in everyone's best interests I don't know and that porbably deserves a discussion on it's own, like the old NCR vs Legion threads.

Personally I believe that the human race would eventually prosper after the Project, but I guess we'll never know the answer to that.

I don't even see who this debate is even relevant. I would be very surprised if the Enclave and/or BoS appear in any future Fallout game. Enclave has been completely wiped out. The remnants do not equal Enclave. Some may still believe in the Enclave's beliefs, but they are all on their own more or less. The Enclave have been wiped out for a good many years now. The BoS only have a 'couple' of VERY isolated locations left. The BoS's main hub was in NCR territory. NCR doesn't put up with the BoS anymore. The BoS do not accept outsiders as members (the vault dweller, chosen one, lone wanderer, and courier are only allowed in just for the game's sake of letting the player having the option of being fully immersed in all the different factions). If the BoS was not very big around the time of FO2 and have only been decreasing in numbers since, what the hell do you think they have left to offer?

The BoS is just a bunch of useless hermits hoarding power armor and energy weapons. Too bad for them that nobody has to rely on Pre-War power armor and energy weapons since new power armor and energy weapons can be produced. Hell, even a trading guild like the VanGraffs make their own energy weapons. The BoS is obsolete.

Both factions are presently worthless.

when the bombs fell the enclave went in bunkers all over the world I belive

The ncr rely on pre war riot armour vangraffs don't make them

No, the people who went to the Oilrig are the only Enclave.

In the days before the Great War Roger Maxson was the second in command (security) at Mariposa. They came across what the researchers were doing (making super mutants). I think the head command killed himself. Maxon lead the other soldiers security in a fight, killing all the researchers and talking over Mariposa. They radioed their leaders telling them what they had done but the Great War started shortly after. Something close to that.

Sometime after Maxon lead the soldiers to Lost Hills.

Caesar's Legion.

Unfortunately for you the Enclave aren't the actual legitimate power. They were a shadowy cabal who took command after the war. It's unknown if amongst them there were still official representatives of the US Government.


Too bad the mutants seem to have survived just right, without the damned purity.
It is actually a similarly deluded basis as Nazi Germany. Just like the Jews weren't an actual race, mutations aren't harmful or worse than being pure. The Enclave is governed by hypocrites, since none of them are vat grown identical clones. In essence every new generation born is mutation. Combining old genetic material with random mutations beyond the control of the so called pure. They have mutated just as much since their arrival on the Oil Rig, than the mutants of the main land.