Yes I know them both. And also the Mutants in FO:NV. Ok.. a few that can be reasoned with; the ones that don't see me and scream "Lunch! Kill! WRRRAH!" I could see working something out.

As for Synths, I don't care how many body parts they have.. they are not alive. They were created in a lab by (very arrogant) scientist (who does need to die). I mean, isn't this how we got the FEV in the first place?

Also how many times does anyone here need to see the Martix, or Terminator, or AI, or the countless other films, books (etc) on this subject. Creating AI, organic or otherwise always leads to disaster. Always.

Maybe with the 3 laws of robotics they might have a place. But these synths have no restrictions. Or guidelines.

I say kill them before one of them kills you.

Except for Glory, turn her into my robotic six slave. Ok Deacon too. (humm... might try and mod that)

Yeah, in the end it was the doom of both the Brotherhood and Institute for my opinion.

"You want to hurt MY FAMILY [Synths]? You DIE."

Also, if they are alive (and they are), then the Institute is slavers.

The ghost of Slaver Hunting Zombie Lincoln Lone Wanderer compels my Survivor.

Firstly, does Nick Valentine deserve to be "killed"?

Secondly, you ever played Fallout 1, 2 or New Vegas?

Lastly, if you've played Fallout 3... What about Fawkes? He's a good super mutant.

As for the innocent par... Brotherhood of Steel has a strong belief that if you aren't with them or for them, then you're against them, even if you're just neutral and just want to live in your vault/farm... Meaning, if you're in their way then they'll flat out just slaughter you.

Heck, I highly believe that the BoS would even slaughter an entire vault of friendly dwellers just to get to some sort of technology thing that Vault-Tec put in there or just to use the vault as some sort of bunker... After all, they will never side with the BoS anyways and they can put "better use" to that vault, right?

Already said Nick was different. He lives his life in the open. No secrets about what he is. His mind wasn't wiped by the RR to "protect" him (excuse me, but what about protecting me, or us - you know, the humans?). And he is accepted now. if the synths lived a similar lifestyle I wouldn't take issue. But they don't.

In fact, the are encouraged to blend in. Memories erased and sent off to god knows where to live a happy life? Does the RR monitor the synths it's "saved"? No. Of course not. They release an AI, a robot, that mimics a human, into the wild. And don't give a rats ass what happens. Please...

And we know what can happen (those of you who took the Institute path know what i'm taking about).

Now I don't blame the RR. I blame the institute. How arrogant thinking only they can guide humanity to a better life. Well, you don't do that by killing and replacing us with robots! I mean, just how many of us do the Institute need to kill before they can save us?

Mutants. Another wonderful man made creation,. The very thing the BoS is against. And they are right. Mutants must die. Now, granted, the few who haven't lost all of their humanity should be allowed to live out their lives. Send them to Jacobstown. That's NCR territory. They'll be safe and can live in peace.

Strong. Make no mistake, he'd cut you in half if he wanted too. And I doubt he'd shed a tear after the deed. So those of you traveling with him, count yourselves lucky. I'm sure, after a while (and how do you stand the smell) you'd both be able to establish some form of friendship. But be his friend and send him to Jacobstown.

Now the ghouls. The feral I think we all agree need to die. Sooner rather than later. The non-feral are fine. I'd draw the line with the BoS. Put them under MM protection and tell the BoS to lay off.

Now, if you don't mind... I got synths, mutant, raiders, and ferals to kill. Rid the earth of the rubbish we wrought.

So we nearly destoryed the world with our violence and the answer to the problems left is to destory whats left. Yep sounds like humanity at its best But I will agree with you on one thing. Time to go play.

Would you prefer inviting the mutants over for tea? Tell you what, do that and let me know how it goes.

And I'm not destroying whats left of the world. I'm saving it for humanity.

Eh....war never changes.

Finally we agree.

Nobody in the Commonwealth has one, but the NCR do!

And it doesn't need missile payloads, although it can only be fired once every 24 hours.

I don't think that would be a limitation though, because after you fire it once, you won't need to fire it again........

It depends on if you told them they have it or not though.

The Followers worked out fairly quickly that the Helios Power Plant is just a receiving station for the Helios Satellite in orbit and with the Helios Rangefinder synced to the satellite, it can focus it's solar energy into a beam of mass destruction.

But since they asked nicely, I decided it was best not to tell the NCR what they really had!

On the other hand, if the corrupt BoS threatened to attack the Mojave, I might be quite inclined to use it on them!

I thought Supermutants were created by the Master, who, let's be honest, his bag of marbles was mostly empty!

That's also where I got the classification system from, he'd list them as smart or stupid depending on whether they retained their intelligence after mutating.

What about your companion Curie, who chose to become a Synth out of scientific necessity?

And to understand the sacrifice she has made, she's now mortal.

That's a pretty big step considering she wasn't going to die of natural causes before and now she will!

Personally I think the BOS have overstayed their welcome. With every fallout game they've had huge hand in, I start to like them less and less. I kinda liked them in f3 only because they weren't like west coast branch....then fallout 4 came out. Let's just say I appreciate "destroy the brotherhood of steel" option we get.

Hell, I almost wish a faction would come and defeat the brotherhood of steel for good (and for irony's sake take all their technology) no matter how unrealistic it is. Let them die off like the enclave dammit. They can't stay in power forever.

To be fair, the Vault 87 strain of super mutants were all irredeemable monsters with the exception of Fawkes and Uncle Leo (who were aberrations of that strain and ostracized by their brethren). In fact, unlike the Mariposa variety, Vault 87 mutants were less intelligent, more violent, and retained less of their humanity. These issues get progressively worse since they grow larger and more beast-like with age.

OT but Crusades were a response to Muslim aggression. Christianity began in the Middle East. Not that Crusaders were soft and nice people, but that is ok in my book.

Know what would be hilarious? A new group of people raise in power from rebuilding the remains of the Enclave, thusly calling themselves the New Enclave but the sole purpose of this group is just to take down Brotherhood of Steel and any other threat. That's it. No need for power over the Wastelanders. No need to go nuts and kill others. No need for techno-crap or big huge world plans... Just a military group of people with the intent of destroying the BoS and other deadly threats.

The irony if that ever happens.

I wonder how many Brotherhood members would defect to that organization if it came into existence?

And not for self preservation, but because they don't believe in the principles of the chapter/organisation.

Veronica from Fallout New Vegas is the prime example of this, she consistently insisted that the Mojave Chapter BoS reform to survive/prosper and all it achieved was to have her put on provisioning runs (a flimsy excuse to keep her out of the bunker as much as possible!)

The path I took when she commented that she'd lost all faith in them was to ask if there were any other groups she would consider joining instead and she chose to become a Follower of the Apocalypse.

From that point onwards, she is not a member of the Brotherhood anymore and she refuses to have anything to do with them, if you attempt to take her into the bunker, she immediately returns to the Lucky 38 because she finds them that unpleasant to be around.

^ Veronica was more of an exception than a rule though, and that particular Chapter was cutting off the branch it was sitting on anyway. Maxson's Chapter is doing pretty well, and if you back them up they've taken control of a huge part of the east coast and powerful weaponry. They could easily stand against whatever new group arose, so why would people defect?

Maxson seems to be almost worshipped, too, so the east coast Chapter apparently leans towards fanaticism.

That's pretty much my playthrough now to be honest. The minutemen aren't an army to help people, I never help the other settlements, just an army to fight the Brotherhood of Steel.

Weirdly, he's beloved in the East Coast but worshiped on the WEST Coast.

Well, I for one like the BoS. I want them to kill all the mutants, ferals and synths.

I'm also building up the MM. We'll (me and the MM) keep the BoS from going to far. But for now: "Death to mutants!"; "Burn the ferals!": and "No AI!".

It's a lot more complicated than that. How could a machine proof that it feels?

Take clever bot for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleverbot

There is a web side where you can chat with cleverbot. It is a program that pretends to be a human. It you talk to him it will simply search in it's data base for an appropriate response. If you ask cleverbot "how are you?" it might answer: "I feel wonderful today, how are you?", simply because it knows that it is an appropriate response.

If you've ever taken philosophy class, then you'll be aware humans can't prove they feel.

It's called the Philosophical Zombie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

Also, that's kind of the point of Paladin Danse's situation.

Elder Maxson refuses to believe Danse actually feels human emotions or loyalty or other human beliefs because it undermines the Brotherhood's position all Synths must die.

Danse, however, seems pretty damn human and I believe him.

Ironically, there IS proof in the game Synths feel emotion as Currie is NOT programmed to imitate human behavior but states she does when she is transferred to her Synth body. She's as close to an objective witness as we're going to get being a machine designed for scientific anolysis.

If you've ever taken philosophy class, you would know that it's lot more complicated than that.

Most philosophy courses don't begin with "humans can't prove they feel." and end with "so AIs must be human" You are trying to boil down a complex philosophical problem.

Humans don't have to prove that we fell. We simply assume that we fell and we know that other humans can't be so different from us.

That we fell is simply an axiom of philosophy.

Yes, "I think therefore I am."

But that only proves YOU think.

Not other people think.

We take it on faith we're not in the Matrix and everyone else is a pre-programmed video game character (which is ironic). It's a choice to believe that Danse, Valentine, and Currie aren't video game characters (hehe) who are just aping human behavior.

And really, shouldn't we ere on the safe side there?

They can't prove they're not feeling beings but if they MIGHT be, isn't that better than condemning them all to slavery and destruction?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjuQRCG_sUw

I've never bought such philosophical arguments personally. People are people and we know that machines can be made to convincingly act like people. That's just a fact.

Yep.

Which doesn't change the fact if they are people, the Institute is monstrously evil.

The Institute dismisses the possibility they're wrong.

And the consequences are the Railroad believes they deserve to die.

The Brotherhood doesn't CARE if they're wrong.

Because they believe it's irrelevant to the threat the Synths pose.

That we are not in the Matrix is an axiom of life. That humans feels is an axiom of philosophy

And it is not a stretch to say that beings with nearly the identical genetic code are similar to us.

We have evidence that unsentiment machines can appear sentient (clever), but there is not proof that there are unsentiment humans can appear sentient.

The BoS also wants to be on the safe side. they don't want that they slit our throats when we sleep, because someone enters the kill code.