My point exactly. And they'd make prefect six bots. They don't get sick. Or tied. Can be programmed to provide anything the customer desires. I could make a fortune.

Don't forget the RR only saves human-looking gen 3 synths. They don't care about gen 2 or 1 since they don't consider them better than robots like protectrons.

To be fair the gen 1 synths are mindless machines, not sure about gen 2 mabye ones constructed near the end of that faze were self-aware.

You can't remotely reprogram an X-men to subvert society.

X-Men are dangerous. What would stop an X-men from hijacking a plane? And many of them would develop a superiority complex. Don't tell me you wouldn't be afraid of fire breathing nazis.

Tell that to Charles Xavier.

Kinda forgot about him. Makes it even more reasonable that people are afraid of X-men.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1558286-the-moral-ambiguity-of-fallout-4s-factions/

Thanks guys

Yep and an entire generations of humans were held in complete slavery, with no rights, because other humans deemed them to be sub human, there are still people today that would rather enslave them or kill them because they truly believe them to be sub human.

Don't you see the slippery slope you are on? Who are YOU to decide who is human and who is not. Genocide is not a good thing for any reason.

It really isn't a slippery slope, people are people and machines are not. There is no further to slide.

It's just simple health and safety dude, automated machinery that has the risk of causing harm to people needs a human overseer at some stage to prevent that happening. Would you let a nuclear reactor run itself? No of-course not, you'd have people making sure it doesn't [censored] up and kill people. Same with Synths, they are machines that have the capacity to cause harm to people and therefore need to be controlled. The first step when dealing with a hazard is elimination, can the hazard simply be removed so that it can't cause harm? That applies with Synths.

Exactly and Currie, Danse, and Nick are people.

Which makes the Institute kind of [censored] as they went to elaborate lengths to make what two people can with some alonetime.

I'm pretty sure they weren't ultimately looking to create Curie, Danse or Nick. They were trying to create X6-88, and they eventually succeeded. Nick isn't the reason people want synths gone - he was accepted quite readily. But now that X6 types are the Institute's focus, 'the synth problem' has become real.

Go ahead and ask a 1800 hundards slave owner if blacks were "people" they would tell you they are not. Go ahead and ask a nazi German if Jews are "people" they will tell you they are not. Thus they deemed it perfectly ok to do what they did.

What if we descover an alien race are we allowed to tottaly wipe them out because they are not "people." or beacuse we fear them and think they might kill all of us?

Stop and think about what you are saying, who gave you the right to decide who is and who is not "people?"

Humans are born. Synths are engineered by humans.

And if you don't mind my asking how gave you the right to decide who is and who isn't people? Why don't we simply agree that no one of us has the right to decide that?

*yawn*. The definition of a human being is fairly biological these-days, I'm not asking a phreonologist or some other hack to define it I am going off the very understandable process that is a human being. This isn't the 1800's and something that was built and then programmed is not a human being.


Aliens are not machines and we don't have the potential to interact with them everyday like Synths, ergo they don't need a risk assessment; though honestly I wouldn't be opposed to removing them if they were a threat to humanity.


I am entirely aware of what I am saying. Synths are machines. Machines need to be controlled to the ensure safety of people. Allowing these things to go free is inherently creating a danger towards people. First step of a risk assessment is to remove the hazard to human life.

Except, they're made from Shaun's DNA.

Exactly no one has the right to decide that, and just because life does not come down a birth cannel does not mean it is not life. For all we know there are alien races out there that do not produce by birth but by cloning themslefs. Heck our very own bioloigical system came to be by cells making copies of themselfs.

When you start deciding the fate of an indiividual by the group they belong to then you have given yourself the moral justification to destroy the individual.

Back on topic that is why I hate the BOS, thy do NOT have that right. And now I am off to play the game, I will check back later very interesting thread.

And again, the question is irrelevant because 3rd generation Synths have biological brains.

Doctor Amal says so.

They just have cybernetic interfaces so they can be reprogrammed and given false memories.

Cloning is also not the same as engineering or building.

If I am not allowed to judge, then why the hell do you fell empowered to decide what is life and what not?

Well, the issue is the Synths are biological creations from Shaun.

Is there really any debate whether they're people in that respect?

Sorry one last post before going to play. You do understand that the human body is nothing but a machine. A biological machine for sure but still a machine. You do know that right now, today they are experementing with biological computers?

As for your question if you do not have the right to decide then what gives me the right. I am not deciding either way. You however would be and would be giving yourself the moral justification by taking that right that does not belong to ou in the first place. Later all have fun in the Fallout world! And some people say gaming is a waste of time.

Sorry to be a broken record here, but I feel like everyone is avoiding the issue I keep bringing up - what about X6-88? He's a gen3 that's clearly intended to appear as human as possible, yet he's effectively nothing more than a programmed weapon, devoid of emotions. And, he seems to be the Institute's ultimate goal, as far as the whole 'synth' issue goes. That's what the Institute is aiming for, and that's what both the Commonwealth citizens and the BoS are concerned about. The 'human' synths - Nick, Danse, Curie... are experiments. Flawed prototypes. Exceptions to the rule.

If given free reign, the Institute will attempt to create an army of terminators.

Bad choice of words... Now, if you would've said humans are humans, than you have a point. However, you said people which is different. In situations, like those found in Bethesda's games, the term "people" isn't used as a group of human beings but rather it is used as a term for a group of creatures with similar levels of intelligence to humans.

For example, in The Elder Scrolls series... Someone could use the term people but the group he or she is speaking about has elves and Argonians in it as well, not just humans.

So, going by that term of the word. In Fallout, "People" will cover human beings, Non-Feral Ghouls, Non-Pure-Vault-87 super mutants, and even freed Synths (like Nick).

It obviously won't count feral ghouls, normal super mutants, raiders, etc cause none of those things have the intelligence of a true human being.

Though is that because of his programming or his training?

Kellog is basically the same as X6-88.

And he was born human.

X6-88 is a fanatic in the service of the Institute and an ice-cold killer but that doesn't necessarily need to correspond to his being a Synth.

But are these biological computers necessarily sentient? If they are not it's possible that Synths are also not sentient.

No, I do not decide. People once told me machine are build and that people are born. You would make a decision by claiming that Synths are people, just like I would make a decision if I claimed that your chair is a person.

But in his case, it does. That's exactly how he was created to be. The Institute perfected their technology. Kellogg became who he was through life experiences, and I'm not arguing that humans can't become as soulless as any machine. But the problem here is, the Institute has the means, and indeed intends to use them, to create actual 'soulless machines', and make them physically indistinguishable from humans. That is a terrifying weapon that should not be allowed to exist, and that's where I'd personally choose to ally with the borderline-fascist BoS to eliminate that threat, despite the collateral damage it would cause among more - and I hesitate to use the term 'human' as a qualifier, so let's say 'aware' - beings, like Nick, Curie, etc.