Also in 3 it was mentioned that they lost all communications with the west coast so how would the elders know Lyon's is dead.

Well, clearly, they re-established communication unless the history of Elder Maxson is complete BS.

BTW, do you think The Shepherd is Fawkes?

No the regular east coast mutant hated fawkes I doubt they would follow him. Also I would put it past the BOS to fabricate Maxon's "right to lead".

Shepard the Super Mutant was murdered by Maxson.

Here's the entire story (thanks to the Elder Lyons thread)

http://i.imgur.com/LdEJOJy.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/oaVxufY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/i0mTsTc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/15pVzXa.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1Y1tZ43.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/5gn48b0.jpg

I'm saying that I don't think Fawkes and Shepard are the same.

They "lost" all communication because the West Coast just stopped communicating with them. They were probably still capable of receiving the East's communications, so when Maxson became Elder they listened to what was going on.

I imagine that had to do with the NCR-Brotherhood War.

It was because Lyon's directly refused an order which was probably the tipping point.

Quote from Rothchild

"It wasn't why we were sent here. Good or bad has nothing to do with it. Lyons knew that, but ignored it. He decided it was more important to save the people here than to obey orders from his superiors. For years he'd try and persuade them to send reinforcements and supplies, all the while stringing them along, saying he was sticking to the mission. Finally, things came to a head. Lyons directly refused orders, and so the West Coast cut us off. No communications, no reinforcements."

Because terminator

It's implied that Maxson is only a pawn for the west coast elders in the terminals.

If you take a moment to listen, Maxson also states they came to eradicate the Institute before they found out about the Synths. They just found out there was an incredible technological energy source in the Commonwealth and the Brotherhood had to control or destroy it.

So wait, the entire reason this chapter of the Brotherhood is so objectionable is just because of one bad leader?

If he is present in Fallout 3, I'd go back to that game and see how many ways I can creatively kill him.

Heck, if I meet him in Fallout 4, I'd do the same thing!

Although I might have to assassinate him quietly as not to antagonize the Brotherhood.

Grenade in the pocket or Mr Sandman are usually the ways to achieve this.

I thought there were procedures in place to prevent this kind of abuse of power though.

I talked with one of the high ranking Paladins in the Mojave Chapter and he said if the Brotherhood disagree with the boss' leadership, they can be removed from this position, either willingly or forcibly.

And I wonder why Fawkes didn't have anything to say on the topic?

In my version of the game, while he was never an official member of the Brotherhood, they didn't seem bothered by the fact he was around.

In point of fact, he seemed to have free reign in their base, because while the Lone Wanderer was unconscious for two weeks, he spent most of that time roaming around their highly secret Headquarters.

Then there was also Marcus, who befriended a Brotherhood Paladin long ago (it's implied that this Paladin died of old age because supermutants do not grow old).

If the Brotherhood has lost their way because of one bad leader, ideally, I'd like to remove him and replace him with someone more amenable to my goals.

Or take the position myself.

It would be so funny to see this scenario:

Sole Survivor: Sorry, you're no longer in charge of the Brotherhood.

Maxson: You can't do this to me! I am their leader!

Sole Survivor: I have some people I'd like you to meet, Strong, X6-88, can you accompany Mr Maxson to a holding cell?

(Strong and X6-88 enter the room, Maxson immediately gets paralyzed in fear).

Sole Survivor: I'll let them explain how misguided you are, I'll be back in a few hours. Try not to die.

They can.... However, Arthur is following BoS doctrine to the letter, so no one has a reason to want to remove him.

He also says that's only because people trust you a lot.

Elder Maxson's story is complicated but you can read it here:

http://i.imgur.com/LdEJOJy.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/oaVxufY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/i0mTsTc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/15pVzXa.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1Y1tZ43.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/5gn48b0.jpg

The short version is after Elder Lyons and Sarah Lyons died ( ), there were a number of ineffectual Elders which some people believe include the Lone Wanderer (and their "ineffectual-ness" was their desire to not be assheads). The Western Brotherhood of Steel Elders resumed contact with the Eastern Brotherhood, though, and installed 16 year old Arthur Maxson as their puppet and he proceeded to reunite the Brotherhood with the Brotherhood Outcasts. He then removed most of Elder Lyons' reforms but kept a small number of them which allowed him to recruit Wastelanders and annex territory.

They still protect Wastelanders but they do so in the context of, "I saved your life so now I own you."

The East Coast Brotherhood now rules the Capital Wasteland as their own private kingdom and they've been spreading out since then. Maxson intends to add the Commonwealth to his territory now.

The Brotherhood's goal to prevent what happened in 2077 from ever happening again. The Enclave and the FEV is abuse of tech of the world ending variety. The Institute trying to create the "perfect machine" could lead to a technological singularity which is also another humanity ending scenario. Their methods svck, but at their core they're good guys or at least try to be.

So basically he wants to be king of a conquered empire?

When he reaches the Mojave, he is in for a nasty surprise......

Not only does he have to contend with the NCR, there may also be an army of Mk2 Securitrons controlled by the Courier.

And then there is the Legion, who would attack the Brotherhood just on general principle.

I thought that was the long term goal of the NCR, to reform the United States under one government.

I do not think they'd tolerate someone else trying to interfere with their efforts, especially someone like Maxson.

For the record, I'd prefer the NCR to be the ones running the country.

They may not be perfect at it, but at least their motivations are honest, they are doing it to make life better for everyone in the country, human, supermutant or ghoul.

Albeit, they have GROSSLY misjudged both the Institute and Synths.

The Institute made their robots more and more human until they're functionally indistinguishable rather than superhuman.

They're also oddball academics versus the Illuminati (they're BAD at manipulating people).

And Synths just want to be people.

The BoS also makes an enemy of the Railroad who isn't even aware the BoS hate them--but have a massive amount of experience fighting technologically superior and dependent foes.

Ehhh, NCR is badly overstretched as is. I think the USA is a few centuries away, if not millennium from being healthy enough to be a true nation again.

The BOS are now Feudal Monarchs but they do a pretty good job of keeping the peace.

Except, well, if you're nonhuman you die and that's not a small thing.

I also think NCR and the BOS should avoid fighting because the EBOS, if they win the Commonwealth, Capital Wasteland, AND Pitt (which they're implied to control as well), then it'd be just another world-destroying war.

They're too powerful to fight without annihilating the other.

The Brotherhood is basically the military without the executive, judicial, and legislative branches holding the leash. The NCR or the Minutemen could become those branches, but the BoS' heads is so far up their asses that they don't consider that a viable option and antagonize those type of militia groups.

Apparently, it's mentioned in game that there is one other Sentinel in Maxson's Brotherhood. The current fan theory is that it is the Lone Wanderer.

Besides that though, I would love for the Brotherhood ending to be canon in this game. I might not be the Brotherhood's biggest fan, but I think a Brotherhood victory could lead to some very interesting outcomes. The Commonwealth would become part of the Brotherhood's budding empire, Liberty Prime is rebuilt, and the Brotherhood of Steel would be the strongest position they have ever been. There could finally be a large faction on the east coast.

Well, they're a large faction even if Maxson dies. I mean, Washington D.C. and probably most of Virginia/West Virginia is the size of a decent-sized European nation.

The BoS does nothing towards the Minutemen at all, and are perfectly content with letting them run around defending the people.

My Lone Wanderer is all the way over in New Vegas and thus has no idea what's going on in DC; she has no vested interest whatsoever in returning. It gives her too many painful memories.

At any rate, their gig is that all mutants and synths must die. All of them. Maxon spells it out quite clearly: it's offensive that they should be allowed to exist among humans.

If sarcastic shows up as an option I always use it.

Let's hope something like that happens in one of the three remaining endings, maybe convince him the west coast elders are using him and he either takes the BOS down a better path or steps down and names you new elder. That probably isn't going to happen but i'll hold out on it until I see those last endings.