That's true but the Brotherhood dominating the east would be something interesting to me. They have all the land from DC to the Commonwealth if they win. It could be interesting to see a Brotherhood empire.

Personally, since the BOS is the Neutral ending, I think Arthur Maxson will end up a cautionary tale of overreaching.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case either. I don't know if the Brotherhood would survive if they lose in 4. The death of Maxson would be a crushing blow on it's own, but the loss of several high ranking Brotherhood members, the destruction of the airship, most of the vertibird fleet, along with thousands of troops and any chance of repairing Liberty Prime is absolutely devastating to the Brotherhood. The physical and psychological loss would be insane. The Brotherhood would again be without an elder, and now without out a large chunk of its forces if there is another succession crisis, which would be likely as many high ranking members are on the Prydwen it could be the death knell for the group.

I don't think the losses are quite that severe.

The loss of the Prydwen is a devastating blow as is the loss of an Elder as well as Liberty Prime.

However, I don't think the Prydwen is a troop carrier and its destruction probably cost a few hundred people rather than thousands.

Still a devastating loss but the majority of their forces seemed like they were at the airport and I expect those will be retreating to the Capital Wasteland.

It's more akin to the losses the Mojave Chapter suffered at Helios than absolute devastation.

If you destroy the airship it crashed into the airport. Those troops are now likely dead. The survivors would have been those in outposts around the Commonwealth, or away from base. Since they no longer can get access to a vertibird, unless they had one with them they are going to have a rough time getting back to the Capital Wasteland. I would say it's much worse than Helios to be honest. At least the survivors were able to just go to Hidden Valley. Mason is much more important than Elijah. He is the Supreme Commander of the Brotherhood of Steel, the morale loss following his death, factoring in how much his men worship him too is very high. With high ranking Brotherhood personnel dying alongside the Elder, it makes you wonder who will replace Maxson in the event of his death. Presumably someone back in DC.

It'd be interesting if the Sole Survivor played the role of Merlin to Maxson's Arthur. The SS would follow his lead, but he/she has first hand knowledge about what worked in the Old World. Making Maxson take a step back and use other methods as the BoS' second in command would be a cool retirement plan.

I imagine the Lone Wanderer did that role, unless Maxson was more Uther than Arthur.

Which is why in my last game, I personally killed him and took his clothes... Then blew up his ship.

Though, in my current game, I am hoping to still be able to do the same thing but might be a little harder. In my last game, I befriended them and was able to visit their ship. Then I became enemies with them by killing some of the scribes in that one police building and then fast traveled to the ship and basically killed the whole entire faction... In my current game, I'm not befriending them at all so I don't know how I'll be able to get onto their ship.

~Edit~

Then again, I kinda have a personal hatred of the Brotherhood of Steel as a whole ever since I've read Fallout: Equestria... Long story.

considering 90% of the super mutants, ghouls, and synths activley try and kill everything they see.....can you really blame them....

also, it is ENTIRELY possible to point out the stupidity in one case and (partially) win the argument.

This

Its not like hating on [insert real world group here] because of [insert real world extremest group that claims to have the same ideals here], where the extremists only make up a VERY small minority of the people who follow those beliefs.

Basically 99% of all ghouls, super mutants, and synths are crazy, destructive, and generally hostile to everything that isn't them.

I don't know about Synths, but if anybody in the BoS bothered to do their homework, they'd very quickly figure out why some Supermutants and Ghouls are aggressive,

The Supermutants have a population base identified as 2ndGen, they suffer from a intellectual defiency that makes them prone to violence.

Not all though, Mean (Fallout BV) is a 2ndGen and he's only aggressive if you are rude to him or are being violent towards the tenants of the building he is guarding (they are humans). Strong is also a 2ndGen and was able to be mollified somewhat.

Nightkin suffer from a dual personality disorder that if left untreated, may result in developing a violent secondary personality, although Dog is a unique case where the secondary personality could be reasoned with.

As for Ghouls, the Ferals have lost their capacity to reason due to degenerating brain tissue and this makes them violent.

Would you judge all 1stGen Supermutants, pacified 2ndGens, treated Nightkin or non-degenerate Ghouls to be abhorrant just because of actions from the other half of their population?

If Maxson can't or refuses to accept this point, then he deserves to be ousted by any means necessary.

Vault 87, and Commonwealth super mutants, the ones the Lyons/Maxson BoS go after, do not have "2nd gens"

That was only the west coast super mutants.

I don't know which were the west coast supermutants, but Tabitha (Fallout New Vegas) identifies 2ndGens as those who lack intelligence (her nickname for them was dumb dumbs).

So given that criteria, any supermutant who doesn't have human levels of intelligence is a 2ndGen, even if they're not from the original batch.

Given the inane things Strong and the hostile supermutants say on a regular basis, I doubt they're 1stGen level material!

The designation indicates intelligence level, nothing more.

Before FO4 came out I was sure I was going to hate the BoS, and now I'm going for their ending... I'm really happy Bethesda decided to have Maxson take them back to their roots, but change the policies that would potentially get them annihilated, i.e. not enlisting wastelanders etc. He actually seems to be a competent leader. That said, Nick Valentine claims Maxson's a lunatic, and Nick is usually right... but I assume this time he's biased, due to, you know... the synth thing.

It is a bit painful having to destroy the Railroad, but supermutants I've always hated, so me and my character are fitting in pretty well.

I go with the theory Maxson is just the West Coast Elders' puppet.

Danse makes some disparaging comments that Maxson is all talk in his quest, which is really shocking given how much he talked him up earlier.

To be fair to Maxon, he probably feels that Owen Lyons damned near destroyed the East Coast BoS with his pacifist style and he doesn't want to make that mistake again. I can also see his fears with the synth thing: too much loose control of technology doomed the world once; only a matter of time before it happens again. Should someone be given the power to play God and create life from machines? Yeah, he's brutal and uncaring, but as far as he's concerned, he's saving humanity from another Armageddon, a Synthetic one, this time.

Which is notable as it's a threat he completely made up in his head.

Well, as you noted before, the BoS came to destroy the Institute before they even knew about synths, so technically the Institute synths are now simply a weapon used by the Institute and are a threat at least in that sense. Plus, they're technology the BoS can't control, so ordering their eradication is just your typical BoS modus operandi, isn't it? Not just Maxson being a paranoid lunatic.

The brotherhood is completely made up of paranoid lunatics.

Lyons was a racist towards mutants as well. The BoS never liked non-humans.

Nope, he is a good leader who saved the BoS from a collapse.

He is just not a nice person.

Wishful thinking. Nobody can control a puppet from so far away. Maxson is nice with them because a) he has no reason to to be and it makes the rest of BoS feel more at ease. Maxson would probably just throw them away like Lyons did if he felt like it.

Unity - Supermutants who almost destroyed all human life in California

Enclave - people who created biological weapons to kill all life in USA

Institute - people capable of causing a rise of machines

Mr. House - a crazy genius who may become a crazy machine god

Big M.T. - a bunch of crazy scientists turned robots who have so many powerful tools that it is not even funny

Elijah and Siera Madre - this guy almost wiped out all life in Mojave

Calculator - a machine god

So no, BoS is not paranoid or lunatics. There are countless threats in the Wasteland that could cause world-wide genocides. BoS are not good guys, but they do have a point in believing that old tech can give room for another world-wide tragedy.

Yes and Synths all just want to be human. Their thought they're going to be a Machine Intelligence racist bunch of genocidal pricks is a serious case of projection.

Do they all? Does X6-88? He sure seems like not much more than a dangerous weapon to me.

All Coursers, really. Seem like loyal soldiers, and they're gen3.

Oh sure that is there logic to try and morally justify what they are doing. Just like the Christians justified the Crusades in the name of God. Just like the Nazi's justified what they did in the name of a better Germany. Just like the Muslim extremists justify what they do.

I have said it before, I have never liked the BOS in any of the Fallout games (with the exception of 3 only because they broke from the BOS to do the ‘right thing’) because they justify death and destruction for their "moral cause." Bottom line, the ends NEVER justify the means. If you have to give up all that is good in humanity to save it, then what is the point in saving it in the first place???? ..... Gets off soap box

The ends sometimes justify the means or Old Yeller would have savagely ripped out the boy's throat.

The BOS aren't bad people.

But as House said, "They're ridiculous."