I am confused here. I got completely slammed by other modders for not packaging my files in a BSA when I released my last town. But now I hear that it may be better not to BSA.

1) If you don't BSA things can get messy. Many resource makers do not want the file paths and names of their meshes and textures changed. So you cannot pile all your meshes and textures neatly into folders with your mod's name. If you don't BSA you will have a bit of a mess and there is nothing you can do about it as you must adhere to the wishes of the makers of the resources you use. This is the case for my upcoming mod that uses hundreds of resources.

2) If you BSA the files then this can cause a problem because of the limited number of BSA's that can be utilized by the game.



Which is the lesser of two evils here? What are your thoughts and how do you prefer to package your files?


BTW, I started a new thread as the other BSA topic's OP post is not asking this question.


For myself I prefer to not have BSA'd mods as I like to tinker with all the meshes and textures and it is just plain easier. I have had problems extracting files from BSAs.

Because of the limit on .esps, .esms and .bsas, I prefer loose files.

Thanks for your input. This is very interesting as I was all set to BSA my massive mod folder simply because so many people blasted me for not on my previous release. I thought I was doing it because I had to. It seems things have changed.

For me I think loose files will make any corrections much easier as I can simply upload any missing files, not a whole new BSA. That said, if people want to uninstall my mod they are going to have a time doing it, especially as many of the resources will be scattered in different folders, as per their authors wishes.

Most of the issues with "messy" folder structures aren't an issue with BAIN, as it will not uninstall a resource that is used by two mods when you remove only one of them - the usual OBMM problem. I'm packaging loose files as BAIN archives these days.

A user who needs every bit of performance gain they can get may consider converting their folders to bsa's, but that's something to leave to them. It's much better for performance if done across all mods, than doing each mod's resources separately, apart from the file limit coming into play.

I prefer BSA mods for the performance gain, I don't understand how people get so concerned with .esm, .esp, .bsa file limit, I rarely come close to a 1/4 of the supposed limit. And if you like tinkering extracting a specific file from a bsa isn't hard or time consuming, probably less time then it took for you to read the read me of said mod.

The only time I don't use bsa's is if the mod is a replacer, easier to control conflicts then.

I think this largely depends on just how many files you're talking about, and how scattered the mess is. If you've got thousands of files, a BSA is probably much easier to deal with. If you've only got maybe a few hundred, then it's not a big deal. You do need to be mindful of the hard 400 file limit, which includes ESM+ESP+BSA files. The game will choke itself silly once that line is crossed.

It might be helpful for you to check out a very useful utility: http://straygenius.com/index.php?title=TES4Files. You should be able to get a very accurate picture of just what you are using and how many files there are that way.

Thanks, Tes4Files is definetely a must have. A brilliant program.

I just took a look...

Meshes 1,193 files in 230 Folders

Textures 2,034 in 233 Folders

Sound 84 files in 18 Folders, but will be much larger once I generate silent voice files and lip sync. Although they willl be uploaded separately (so people can choose to use Ely's Silent Dialog or not) and in one main file.


Not sure exactly how large that rates as, probably medium to large sized mod. But it certainly of a size to make me consider very carefully how to present it.

Just checked, and I currently have 299 ESM+ESP+BSA files in my data folder, but then I have been modding and not playing lately so I'm a bit behind in updating UL mods + patches etc., so it will definitely pass 300 when I start playing again. Which means that I still have a bit to go before I hit the cap, but not so much that one BSA more or less is a problem.

But I agree with Arthmoor that whether to BSA or not should depend on the number of files that will be in the BSA. And I also agree that scattered files is no problem if you ensure that the mod is BAIN (and OMOD) ready, as uninstallation then becomes just as easy when they're packed as BSA as when they're scattered. People who complain too much about scattered files can be told to start using BAIN (or OBMM).


Edit: Ninja'd by Meek. While I haven't counted the size of my other mods, I would think the numbers there would make a BSA quite natural.

I'm all for bsa files. Maybe there is BAIN, but why use it when there is already the (even easier to use) bsa option? You can have 255 esp/esm files in your data folder. That means you can have 145 bsas in your data folder in theory without problems. How many mods do need bsas? Certainly not more than 50% of your load order. So there is really no space problem unless you leave a lot of unnecessary stuff in your data folder. And (uncompressed) bsas are also better for performance than loose files.

EDIT: And extracting a bsa is as simple as extracting a zip archive if you really insist on using loose files.

Just wanted to point out that it's not unusual to have 300 or so esp/esm files, where 50 or more of them are merged/disabled in the Bashed Patch. But of course, a player who has that many mods should know how to unpack a BSA as well, so it can be overcome either way.

Since I like messing with the textures and meshes - I usually prefer loose files (I also have all of the game bsa's extracted as well ) - but as Phitt mentioned whether the mod comes packaged or not can be modified easily to the end users preference by them either creating a BSA or unpacking a BSA - So whichever is best for you is the way to go !!

So you could be looking at potentially 4,000+ files spread over a couple hundred folders. I'd say that gets into where a BSA would be beneficial.

For the folks who keep 300+ plugins around, Wrye Bash can mitigate the file limit problem with the ghosting feature, buying some space and leaving a bit more room for BSAs. The only problem I see would be if everyone starts going down this same road and using a BSA when it's not warranted.

A couple of my own mods are currently using them and don't really need to be, and their next updates will be removing them in favor of loose files organized under my own folder.

Replacement files for files in the vanilla BSAs should not be packed in a BSA, the game does not use them (unless there is a loose file with the same path\name in the data\* folder (with a date newer than the vanilla bsa and older than the created bsa))

I do prefer bsa as they are easier to handle than loose files. So for all my mods, and the mods I download, I bsa everything but the mods which are replacers like QTP3 or AWLS, or UOP as those are replacing files already in the vanilla bsa.

Unless the resources files are unique and won't conflict with others and the size is at least 50 MB, preferrably 100, then I prefer loose files. I'm a control freak, and loose files means more control.

BAIN + loose files, 100%. I prefer things to be transparent and as easily managed as possible, all the time.

Hi guys!

To save slots, can one repack multiple BSAs into a single one?

For example, Cybiades has got 6 different BSAs (Cybiades - Textures, - Meshes, - Sound etc) so could I repack them in
"Cybiades - Resources" - should load the same afaik.. but would it work?

Advice would be appreciated before proceeding, thanks

Agree on this theme - if the files are unique and not shared by other mods or vanilla then BSA. If they are replacers that would effect many mods or vanilla then loose.

Yep, it'll work. Did the same myself.
I also combined all of the DLC's into single bsa. Works just dandy.

How did you rename the new BSA of DLCs then? The BSA must have the same name as the esp file that'll use it. How did you manage to get all the DLCs load up from one single BSA? Did you add it to Oblivion.ini? I'm relatively new to Oblivion modding, so I'd like to know

No, they don't. They only need to start with the name of one active esp in your load order. So if you have one active esp named "mybsaloader.esp", any bsa whose name starts with "mybsaloader" will be loaded. And any esp can refer the content of that bsa as normal, as long as it is loaded, regardless of the BSA's name.

Thanks Aellis, and TNO, that was very helpful.

Now, can I repack Oblivion's vanilla BSAs as well, like for example Voices2 into Voices1, and Misc and Sounds into Meshes, and edit .ini accordingly to ensure loading?

Cheers

Sure!
In my case, I have two drives for my game.
First I unpacked the vanilla bsa's.
Then used the http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19836 to split them in half.
Repacked them without compression and named them M1, M2, T1, T2, V1, and v2 .bsa.
Then put the "1's" on one drive and the "2's" on the other.
Edited the ini and wah-la! Off to the races...

Sorry I can't link to the ORB thread - it's gone.

I thought about using BSA containers, but I found it better to do the pseudo-installer method such a an OMOD.