BTB's Game Improvements - Revenge Of The Topic : III - Morrowind

» Fri May 13, 2011 11:49 am

Its not an issue of prudishness, at least for I'm sure most of the Better Clothes users, but rather about maintaining consistency in the game world and that includes no lizards donning shirts with built in stuffed chests. In other words its a bug. Bug squashed = good thing. :wink:

» Fri May 13, 2011 10:53 pm

edit: Your new Better Clothes plugin results in vanilla clothing with my game. This could be due to a whole set of things, so don't pay attention to this until other people report something similar. I'm using your old BC NAC plugin again, however.

Hey, can you give me an example? I thought I had one... and it just turned out to be that Better Clothes doesn't replace robes.

EDIT but what *does* replace robes, it seems, is CanadianIce's Robe Replacer. Oh, boy, this means I get to create *another* compatibility plugin.

» Fri May 13, 2011 11:31 am

EDIT but what *does* replace robes, it seems, is CanadianIce's Robe Replacer. Oh, boy, this means I get to create *another* compatibility plugin.

Seriously, do you think it's *really* necessary? Shouldn't object merging be enough and solve the problem? There are plently of mods out there conflicting with yours...

Better Clothes for example, was it really necessary to create a compatibility plugin? (I ask because I always merged objects and no problem with that)

» Sat May 14, 2011 3:12 am

Seriously, do you think it's *really* necessary?

Yes! It is necessary from my point of view. At least for the really nice and well known mods, like Better Clothes and the CanadianIce mods, not all of them. And maybe also http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=7673 and http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=7335.

» Fri May 13, 2011 11:05 am

Seriously, do you think it's *really* necessary? Shouldn't object merging be enough and solve the problem? There are plently of mods out there conflicting with yours...

For all the big-name mods, I think it's a good gesture. More importantly, if you look at my mod list (which is basically a list of every mod I use), the major theme is compatibility. You can use every mod I offer without the use of merged dialogue, leveled lists, or objects... and I intend to keep it that way.

» Fri May 13, 2011 12:39 pm

How do you guys merge anyway? I used TESTool once, but it sure [censored] things up for me, so personally I'm not that inclined to just start merging the hell around.

BC does not replace robes, indeed. Actually playing the game sure is an eye opener, isn't it, BTB?

I use CanadianIce's Robe Replacer, NioLiv's version (the other one is HurdyGurdy's). There are five or six conflicting robe entries, but it took me 30 seconds editing time in the CS.

The only issue with this robe replacer is that gloves and gauntlets sometimes clip through the sleeves of robes.

» Fri May 13, 2011 11:02 pm

For all the big-name mods, I think it's a good gesture. More importantly, if you look at my mod list (which is basically a list of every mod I use), the major theme is compatibility. You can use every mod I offer without the use of merged dialogue, leveled lists, or objects... and I intend to keep it that way.

Great! :celebration:

» Sat May 14, 2011 1:03 am

How do you guys merge anyway? I used TESTool once, but it sure [censored] things up for me, so personally I'm not that inclined to just start merging the hell around.

Aye, as I mentioned above, my preferred method is checking for conflicting entires with TESPCD and then manually editing the conflicting plugin. It's more work that way, but far less chance to [censored] anything up.

Thus, the purpose of creating the edited plugins is to save other players the hassle of doing this themselves.

The only issue with this robe replacer is that gloves and gauntlets sometimes clip through the sleeves of robes.

Yeah, clipping is kind of annoying. My charcter's shoulders clip around her armor a lot, and her hair tends to go through her neck >.>

» Sat May 14, 2011 2:31 am

Yes! It is necessary from my point of view. At least for the really nice and well known mods, like Better Clothes and the CanadianIce mods, not all of them. And maybe also http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=7673 and http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=7335.

Of couse, from *your* point of view, but it is not really necessary at all. Learning to use TESTool you would have realized that you could have already been playing all those mods without conflicts now, merging (objects of) all of them in 10 seconds.

However BTB's work is admirable, no doubts about that.

» Sat May 14, 2011 2:54 am

Of couse, from *your* point of view, but it is not really necessary at all. Learning to use TESTool you would have realized that you could have already been playing all those mods without conflicts now, merging (objects of) all of them in 10 seconds.

When I try to merge objects with TesTool the program crashes when it reaches BTB Equipment. So its not so easy and fast to use for me or others as it is for you. Not to mention that I almost broke my install with the Just Break it function. So since the only clothing mods I use are the popular ones, compatibility plugins are the best option for me and I am sure others. And so I am very happy that BTB is considering doing them

» Fri May 13, 2011 5:21 pm

Well, with regards to CanadianIce's Robes, the problem comes into play in that there's so [censored] many different versions of the plugins that it'll be tough to create a quick and dirty set of compatibility plugins. At the very least, I'm looking at four:

~~BC Complete +~~ CanadianIce (NoLiv version)
~~BC Complete +~~ CanadianIce (NoLiv + leveled lists version)
~~BC Complete +~~ CanadianIce (Hurdy version)
~~BC Complete +~~ CanadianIce (Hurdy + leveled lists version)

~~It's not much of a stretch to assume that anyone using CanadianIce's robes will also be using Better Clothes, so I'm cool there.~~ This does get rid of all of the Morrowind-only versions of CanadianIce's plugins, which isn't too much of a problem since the Equipment plugin requires Tribunal and Bloodmoon. ~~The only real problem I see is that it can't take into account if you mix and match CanadianIce's two different versions.~~

» Fri May 13, 2011 2:02 pm

When I try to merge objects with TesTool the program crashes when it reaches BTB Equipment.

That is very strange. Have you tried to run TESTool with only BTB Equipment active in the load list?

» Sat May 14, 2011 12:45 am

The TESTool merger always crashes on umpteen active mods. There is kind of a limited amount of objects or something. Just remove all the mods that do not have to be merged.

» Fri May 13, 2011 3:38 pm

The TESTool merger always crashes on umpteen active mods. There is kind of a limited amount of objects or something. Just remove all the mods that do not have to be merged.

Aa that's why. Then it should work if I choose only the clothing mods and BTB Equipment. Nice. Thank you!

I am used to the bashed patch from Wrye Bash from Oblivion that merges apparently a limitless number of objects and a lot of other things with no problems. Too bad there is no such thing in Morrowind, it would help a lot.

» Fri May 13, 2011 11:10 am

8.5 is up. Compatibility plugins added. Not really much else in this update. I think I might actually be *done* with this mod.

My mod list was updated today, too. I'm pretty sure I'm done with it, as well, excepting the upcoming MCP release.

And screenshots. It needs moar screenshots.

» Fri May 13, 2011 10:50 am

I am used to the bashed patch from Wrye Bash from Oblivion that merges apparently a limitless number of objects and a lot of other things with no problems. Too bad there is no such thing in Morrowind, it would help a lot.

I agree, but I think you have overlooked something that you actually can do in Wrye Mash and that's of course the Mashed Lists.esp with the merged lists from the popup (right click) menu. Remember and that's important don't select anything else except the merged lists in that menu.

» Fri May 13, 2011 10:27 pm

I agree, but I think you have overlooked something that you actually can do in Wrye Mash and that's of course the Mashed Lists.esp with the merged lists from the popup (right click) menu. Remember and that's important don't select anything else except the merged lists in that menu.

I already use the Mashed Lists.esp, but does it replace the need for Merged Objects from TesTool?

» Fri May 13, 2011 12:10 pm

I already use the Mashed Lists.esp but does it replace the need for Merged Objects from TesTool?

No, because it's advised not to used the Merged Objects with Mashed Lists.esp in Wrye Mash and probably not with TESTool either.

» Fri May 13, 2011 9:07 pm

No, because it's advised not to used the Merged Objects with Mashed Lists.esp in Wrye Mash and probably not with TESTool either.

I didn't know. I'm very glad that you told me before I made one really bad mistake in my install. Thank you!

OMG I barely read the history now. Happy Birthday BTB for yesterday! :foodndrink: Have a new year full of accomplishments and joy for you and your loved ones!
Unfortunately I don't know any Swedish redheads, and if I did most likely I would have kept her/them for myself :laugh:

» Fri May 13, 2011 3:27 pm

BTB, just a quick question on the load order. You mentioned earlier in this thread that your compatibility plugins should load AFTER the BTB Equipment plugin.

Does this now include the Canadian Ice robe replacer? In which case, any plugin with the "BTB edit" label should load after your equipment plugin, as a general rule of thumb.

» Fri May 13, 2011 7:39 pm

OMG I barely read the history now. Happy Birthday BTB for yesterday! :foodndrink: Have a new year full of accomplishments and joy for you and your loved ones!
Unfortunately I don't know any Swedish redheads, and if I did most likely I would have kept her/them for myself :laugh:

Wow, more people actually read the version history notes than I thought, apparently.

Anyways, thanks

BTB, just a quick question on the load order. You mentioned earlier in this thread that your compatibility plugins should load AFTER the BTB Equipment plugin.

Does this now include the Canadian Ice robe replacer? In which case, any plugin with the "BTB edit" label should load after your equipment plugin, as a general rule of thumb.

Yeah, all of the compatibility plugins load after the main plugins. I manually set the modified dates of the plugins so that the default load order is the correct one.

» Fri May 13, 2011 4:31 pm

No, because it's advised not to used the Merged Objects with Mashed Lists.esp in Wrye Mash and probably not with TESTool either.

Merged Objects can be used with Wrye's Mashed Lists -- they do not conflict because they each do different things. You may be confusing TESTool's Merged Objects with its Merge Leveled Lists, a different function, which does the same thing as Mashed Lists and should indeed not be used together. (Both merge the leveled lists in your mods and the TESTool version is considered obsoleted by Wrye's function.)

» Fri May 13, 2011 1:53 pm

Merged Objects can be used with Wrye's Mashed Lists -- they do not conflict because they each do different things. You may be confusing TESTool's Merged Objects with its Merge Leveled Lists, a different function, which does the same thing as Mashed Lists and should indeed not be used together. (Both merge the leveled lists in your mods and the TESTool version is considered obsoleted by Wrye's function.)

Hmm, that means that I actually can use the merge objects option from TesTool. Thanks!

» Fri May 13, 2011 11:13 am

Yeah, all of the compatibility plugins load after the main plugins. I manually set the modified dates of the plugins so that the default load order is the correct one.

When i extract the esp's from the zip, it appears to overwrite your timestamp and load them in the extraction order rather than your order. Is there anything I can do about that? No probs if not, I can just redate them in WM

» Fri May 13, 2011 4:19 pm

When i extract the esp's from the zip, it appears to overwrite your timestamp and load them in the extraction order rather than your order. Is there anything I can do about that? No probs if not, I can just redate them in WM

Um... Windows should not do that. The "created" date will be different, but the "modified" date should remain the same.