[relz] BTB's Game Improvements 3.0 : III - Morrowind

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:03 am

I've changed the fireball speed to 11.0 from 1.0 because I thought they were ridiculously slow. Will this mod conflict with that?
Thanks for the update, too.

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:13 am

I've changed the fireball speed to 11.0 from 1.0 because I thought they were ridiculously slow. Will this mod conflict with that?
Thanks for the update, too.

So long as your mod loads after mine, you won't have any problems.

Or, you can just edit my mod with your settings (mine is set at a paltry 2.0... though you've made me consider raising that number).

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:51 am

Updated to version 3.5

Now includes bugfixes from the 1.6.5 beta release of the MPP.

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:30 am

Script "_birthsign_level"

It is necessary to reset variable "timer".

I just noticed this post, and I'm not exactly sure what it means.

I've seen you before, in the MPP thread, and I know that English isn't exactly your best language. But you do really seem to know what the hell you're talking about, so... yeah, if you could elaborate a bit, that would be great. I didn't write the script myself, so I'm really not entirely sure how it works.

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:20 am

Updated to version 3.5

Now includes bugfixes from the 1.6.5 beta release of the MPP.

Aren't you going to have to update it again once the official 1.6.5 version of MPP comes out?

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:25 am

I just noticed this post, and I'm not exactly sure what it means.

I've seen you before, in the MPP thread, and I know that English isn't exactly your best language. But you do really seem to know what the hell you're talking about, so... yeah, if you could elaborate a bit, that would be great. I didn't write the script myself, so I'm really not entirely sure how it works.

It is just basic scripting, if you forget to reset a timer it will work the first time only...

If ( timer <= 2 )	returnEndifset timer to 0

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:55 am

Aren't you going to have to update it again once the official 1.6.5 version of MPP comes out?

Probably not, since the current beta version is the one focused on object changes (which directly concerns my Equipment mod), and the pretty much the only additions that need to be made before the next official release are dialogue and quest fixes (neither of which are edited by my mod).

However, the documentation may need to be updated since a few of the tweaks I make in it have been suggested as additions to the MPP.

It is just basic scripting, if you forget to reset a timer it will work the first time only...

If ( timer <= 2 )	returnEndifset timer to 0

Hmm... I see.

It appears that this timer was added to prevent the birthsign from being added back in too early (which it probably normally doesn't do, but was added as a safety net just in case), which is probably why I never noticed this before.

Sorry in advance if this is a stupid question, but wouldn't this timer reset every time the script ran anew? Seeing as it is only used once every time the script runs, it doesn't seem inherently necessary to reset it.

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:21 am

Sorry in advance if this is a stupid question, but wouldn't this timer reset every time the script ran anew?

No. Global scripts variables may reset (loose their values) if the global script never runs in a game session. As this is a script autostarted on loading game end never stopped during the game session, you are running this global script each frame, so variable values are preserved, and (luckily!) you are responsible of/can rely on variable values.

A more detailed explanation on script variables from MSFD below:

General Information: Scripts, Commands and Syntax
Types of scripts
Local scripts
Any script that is running on an object or Actor in the game (assigned in the script-dropdown field of the object or Actors object window) is a local script. Local scripts are only active if the cell is loaded – this is the current interior cell, or the current and all directly neighboring exterior cells. When the object is outside of this range the script is not running, but the local variables are saved. You cannot stop a local script using Stopscript.
Global scripts
Any script that is not attached to any object is a global script, and is by default not executed until you call it (see below). Note that there is no default object for a global script to work on, so objects must always be specified: while the following will work in a local script attached to an NPC:

AITravel 1150, 8899, 1110

You will have to specify the NPC in a global script:

"NPC_ID"->AITravel 1150, 8899, 1110 ;NPC_ID is the ID, the unique identifier for
;each object in the editor

Global scripts are active all the time once they have been activated and until they are specifically terminated. Thus, once activated, they will be processed every frame as described for locals scripts above. That is why they should be used with caution, as too many, or too complicated global scripts can easily slow the game down a lot.
The command to start a non-active script is:

StartScript, "Script ID"

With Tribunal and Bloodmoon you also have the option to make a script start automatically with the game. In the TESCS under the menu Gameplay/Edit starting Scripts/ you can add any script to the list of automatically started scripts.

The function to terminate a global script is:

StopScript, "Script ID"

Variables local to a global script will be saved temporarily when the script is stopped and restarted. In order to ensure that variables are always saved, the script must be run at least once every load session. If you need to be sure the variables are reset, you should reset them yourself: don't rely on it happening automatically.

A simple way to ensure variables are saved is to use a startscript (only available with expansions); so for example the startscript might look something like this:
begin KeepVarsScript

if ( ScriptRunning, MyScript == 0 )
set MyScript.KeepVars to 1
StartScript MyScript
endif

StopScript KeepVarsScript

end

…and the script "MyScript" might look like this:
begin MyScript

short KeepVars

if ( KeepVars == 1 )
set KeepVars to 0
StopScript MyScript
return
endif

;main body of script goes here

end

It is possible to use the StartScript function to run global scripts that are tied to an object or Actor. These are called "targeted scripts".

"Object_ID"->StartScript "Script_ ID"

These scripts resemble both local scripts (in that the functions called always default to the object or Actor the script targets) and global scripts (in that they are always running and can be terminated with StopScript).

Note: read more on the special case of "targeted scripts" in the Tips and Tricks section.

[EDIT]typos

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:27 pm

Ok.

Is it proper to set the timer to 0 after the timer bit, like this:

If ( timer <= 2 )
return
Endif
set timer to 0

Or do I stick it at the very end of the script, after the abilities are added back?

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:06 am

Ok.

Is it proper to set the timer to 0 after the timer bit, like this:

If ( timer <= 2 )
return
Endif
set timer to 0

Or do I stick it at the very end of the script, after the abilities are added back?

It should be the same in practice, as long as the instruction is executed before calling the test If ( timer <= 2 ) again in a future frame.
I suggest resetting the variable as soon as possible though, this way, having test and reset lines near each other you visually reduce the risk to forget the reset part.

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:06 am

Ok, thank you.

I've edited the script, and am about to playtest it. I will release another update either tonight or tomorrow.

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:35 am

Ok, updated to 3.6

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:42 pm

Im not sure what I enjoyed more in your guide to Morrowind mods - your descriptions or you BTB improvements mod. Not sure if you modding can top your dialogue....great job on the guide and improvments btw.

Guess I do have a question - you seem very much against other quest mods. Did you try them, didnt have time to try them, or just dont like them as you said in your write ups? Seems like a few I would be interested but I may do 1 playthrough with your guidelist - it is my first time playing Morrowind - have played heavily modded Oblivion and Fallout3 and some of the quest mods in those games are excellent.

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:18 am

Im not sure what I enjoyed more in your guide to Morrowind mods - your descriptions or you BTB improvements mod. Not sure if you modding can top your dialogue....great job on the guide and improvments btw.

Thank ye.

And yeah, my theory is that if someone's going to have to read huge walls o' text to get my point across, they might as well be entertaining.

Guess I do have a question - you seem very much against other quest mods. Did you try them, didnt have time to try them, or just dont like them as you said in your write ups?

A little from column "A", and a little from column "B". Most quest mods I can tell from the name and/or description alone aren't going to be worth my time, much in the same way that one needn't drink battery acid to figure out that it's probably not a good idea. I did try out a few of the higher0quality ones way back when, and weeded them out one-by-one for one reason or another, but the biggest one seemed to be that they just didn't feel like they "fit" with the rest of the game. Ideally, a brand-new player should be able to install every mod on my list, play the game, and honestly not be able to tell any content added by any of the mods apart from the game proper. And for quest mods, that's just not something I can say about, well, any of them.

LGNPC may be a special case in this respect, but it gets a pass because of what it actually does.

Seems like a few I would be interested but I may do 1 playthrough with your guidelist - it is my first time playing Morrowind - have played heavily modded Oblivion and Fallout3 and some of the quest mods in those games are excellent.

Well, you are the target audience of my list. Many people here will tell you that you should play the game unmodded at first, but I'm a firm believer against that line of thinking. My mod list spends a lot of time explaining what the problems with the unmodded game are and how I fix them.

Let me know how it goes.

Oh, and also, I'm currently working a version 4.0 of my mod. I'm going to address all of the enchanted items and artifacts in the game to fit in with my spell and equipment settings, plus a few other things.

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:10 am

I have 100% of your guide installed now plus another 10% of others not in your guide. Walking around the initial town and surrounding areas - beautiful as compared to the original both inside houses and outside - let time pass until night. I need to add some MGE (just figured out how to get the shaders working - got 2 installed) mods like denock arrows and a few others and them will be almost done.

Final thing I like is companion mods (1 or 2 of the Emma & Grumpy ones Im looking at now). I assume they will be compatible with the mods in your guide. And then I will stop and do my first play through probably as a mage/assassin and let you know how it goes.

Btw, I think you would give the Joker (crazy dialogue for a game) a run for his money in Batman Arkham Asylum - if played right, its one of my all time stealth based games where the goal is more than just simply killing zombies all game day long. If you havent played it yet, I think you might very well like it. Again thanks for the guide.

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:06 pm

Nice work ! Is it compatible with GCD ?

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:14 am

Nice work ! Is it compatible with GCD ?

If you use "Character.esp" you should probably delete or disable the script that removes birthsign attribute bonuses when your character sleeps. I think that's the only issue.

....

I've been creating a character to play with a mod list mostly similar to yours, BTB, and using all of the .esp's from this mod. Right now, I can only really comment on the race and birthsign changes.

I like the changes to the mage and the atronach birthsigns, but the apprentice is now too weak compared to either of them. It gives the same magicka multiplier bonus as the other two and a power that is weak in comparison to 50 absorption or the ability to be capable of 120 intelligence. I think just about everyone forced to choose between your apprentice and mage birthsigns would most certainly go for the mage. If you still want the mage birthsign to give the largest magicka bonus, the apprentice needs its power tweaked to offer something more substantial to the player.

I like the nerf to the atronach. Lowering the magicka bonus was probably the only proper way to do it. The change also gives it a nice niche as being the magicka bonus sign for hybrid characters, who are more capable of dealing with the regeration issues. However, I also think you may benefit from placing a certain magicka regen mod in your list. http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=33629&id=7853 I found using Gluby's guide gives a regen very well suited for the game. Every 3 or 6 seconds the character gets a tick based on willpower, intelligence and magic skills, and only 1.5 per tick when those are all at 100. This should make the game much more playable for heavy magic characters, and it gives more reason to avoid the atronach sign. When I used to play this game on the Xbox, any character I made that used magic got the atronach sign because the regeneration system for magicka was so broken. The 50 absorption in vanilla made recovering magicka in fact easier and less cumbersome than resting for long periods of time and getting attacked. Tyrthyllanos' mod does a good job of balancing the atronach choice.

I'll have more comments when I actually begin to play the damn game.

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:03 am

I got an idea of a possibly perfect way to nerf chameleon and invisibility. It's by mimicking Fallout 3. Chameleon would have a set magnitude level (like 50% or 75%), and in spellmaking one could only change the duration. Possibly invisibility would just be removed, as it's pretty similiar, and all instances of it replaced with this new chameleon. I guess it's not possible with any current means, but i wanted to throw the idea here anyway to see if other's like it.

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:04 am

Hey BTB, just recently found out about this mod, and I really enjoy it. Together with the other suggestions from your list concerning gameplay balancing, it makes the game much more rewarding. Whenever I made the Mages Guild quests, I found myself stealing that 80.000 septims soulgem from Galbedir, effectively ruining the fun for myself.
You finally took care of that problem.

One thing I don't get are your changes to the transportation network. Might just be me, but I'd say that teleporting someone is a service that would be much more expensive than silt striders or boats. It's more comfortable, it's instantaneous, and it's magic, i.e. it's something only a few people can do, i.e. they can charge large amounts for it. Yet the difference between teleportation and usual transportation is such that teleportation is always a good choice. Currently in my game, a silt strider trip to Ald'ruhn from Balmora costs thrice as much as a Mages Guild teleportation. I think the exact opposite would make more sense.
So I'd say... swap the prices and make teleportation the expensive choice. Especially later in the game, the player might choose the more comfy option over the cheaper one anyway, be it because of roleplaying or "just because he can", so that this way it would also be a much more effective money sink.

(Also, please don't remove Invisibility or cripple Chameleon's usefulness any more. You already improved the buyable spells and disallowed Chameleon enchantments, and making a useful high Chameleon spell is pretty damn expensive, so I think it's really balanced now.)

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:24 am

If been playing MW for the first time (went on vaca for a time) and must say I have a hard time making money. I think I may need to revert to stealing just to earn some cash. I dont know how easy it was to make money in vanilla MW, but I seem to always have limited funds making choices difficult at times...

My only suggestion is to allow for some value in selling home made potions. I would like to think of it as a mage and/or assassin (non-thief) having the ability to "earn" a small living selling potions especially at low levels. It would be a plugin for non-thief mage character.

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:32 am

I got an idea of a possibly perfect way to nerf chameleon and invisibility. It's by mimicking Fallout 3. Chameleon would have a set magnitude level (like 50% or 75%), and in spellmaking one could only change the duration. Possibly invisibility would just be removed, as it's pretty similiar, and all instances of it replaced with this new chameleon. I guess it's not possible with any current means, but i wanted to throw the idea here anyway to see if other's like it.

Well, like you said, it's not possible by any means, though the idea itself isn't a bad one.

The truth is that the stealth system of Morrowind is not a very well-developed one. You're then faced with the choice of trying to get broken game features to work well with the game, or simply just lopping them off altogether. In many cases, I had to opt for the later route.

While Invisibility and Chameleon do have legitimate uses in combat, its their use outside of combat that breaks them. The same can be said of Telekinesis, which is a real shame. I'd like to think that shopkeepers would notice their inventory floating away right in front of their eyes, but sadly, they don't.

Hey BTB, just recently found out about this mod, and I really enjoy it. Together with the other suggestions from your list concerning gameplay balancing, it makes the game much more rewarding. Whenever I made the Mages Guild quests, I found myself stealing that 80.000 septims soulgem from Galbedir, effectively ruining the fun for myself.You finally took care of that problem.

Odd... that's the one problem I don't remember fixing. Unless you're referring to the fact that I've lowered the value of the soul gems enough that it's no longer worth stealing?

One thing I don't get are your changes to the transportation network. Might just be me, but I'd say that teleporting someone is a service that would be much more expensive than silt striders or boats. It's more comfortable, it's instantaneous, and it's magic, i.e. it's something only a few people can do, i.e. they can charge large amounts for it. Yet the difference between teleportation and usual transportation is such that teleportation is always a good choice. Currently in my game, a silt strider trip to Ald'ruhn from Balmora costs thrice as much as a Mages Guild teleportation. I think the exact opposite would make more sense.So I'd say... swap the prices and make teleportation the expensive choice. Especially later in the game, the player might choose the more comfy option over the cheaper one anyway, be it because of roleplaying or "just because he can", so that this way it would also be a much more effective money sink.

Well, I'm assuming that one would combine my mod with one like, say, Service Requirements. That way, teleportation is a privilege you earn instead of a given at the outset of the game, and thus the lower cost is justified.

(Also, please don't remove Invisibility or cripple Chameleon's usefulness any more. You already improved the buyable spells and disallowed Chameleon enchantments, and making a useful high Chameleon spell is pretty damn expensive, so I think it's really balanced now.)

I have no intentions of editing the spells any further, but I am working on editing the enchanted items in the same manner as I did the spells. The Amulet of Shadows, for example, will still be better than any spell you can make, but not ludicrously so. And in that same vein, lots of enchanted items that were previously worthless I'm aiming to make more useful, again in much the same vein as the spell edits.

It's just long, hard work that I thought I'd have done by now.

If been playing MW for the first time (went on vaca for a time) and must say I have a hard time making money. I think I may need to revert to stealing just to earn some cash. I dont know how easy it was to make money in vanilla MW, but I seem to always have limited funds making choices difficult at times...My only suggestion is to allow for some value in selling home made potions. I would like to think of it as a mage and/or assassin (non-thief) having the ability to "earn" a small living selling potions especially at low levels. It would be a plugin for non-thief mage character.

The problem with allowing for any kind of profit to be made with homemade potions falls into the same thing I was talking about above. I can either put massive amounts of effort into making something broken a little less broken, or just nuke it altogether. Alchemy ingredients are cheap, and even with a small value, one could easily cheese a profit from making potions. This is the same reason that, for example, enchanting items yourself doesn't make them any more valuable.

Though there are plenty of ways to make money, still, there's (hopefully) no more ways to make enough of it that you won't have to be smart about what you're spending it on. From what you've described, what you're experiencing is bery much the sort of thing this mod was aiming for.

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:17 am

The problem with allowing for any kind of profit to be made with homemade potions falls into the same thing I was talking about above. I can either put massive amounts of effort into making something broken a little less broken, or just nuke it altogether. Alchemy ingredients are cheap, and even with a small value, one could easily cheese a profit from making potions. This is the same reason that, for example, enchanting items yourself doesn't make them any more valuable.

Though there are plenty of ways to make money, still, there's (hopefully) no more ways to make enough of it that you won't have to be smart about what you're spending it on. From what you've described, what you're experiencing is bery much the sort of thing this mod was aiming for.

Ha Ha - you caught me in the act! I really spent some money foolishly early on (I simply refuse to use the console to make any cheating adjustments like adding money to my inventory - always have, always will) because I really didn't understand the game mechanics starting out new to the game - even things such as skills and leveling. Until you actually play the game for awhile, much of what you read makes better sense after playing. I plan to start a different character this weekend because I don't like the one I initially created and plan to keep all of your adjustments in the new game - while more challenging, it should also prove to be more enjoyable.

Great job and looking forward to your other adjustments you plan to make.

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:09 am

Odd... that's the one problem I don't remember fixing. Unless you're referring to the fact that I've lowered the value of the soul gems enough that it's no longer worth stealing?

Yes, that's what I was referring to. The soulgem is now only worth 3000 gold or something like that, and the urge to steal it isn't nearly as big as before.

Concerning the transportation fees, I decided to edit your mod a little bit so that teleportation is now more expensive. Your documentation is very detailed, so that I had no problems finding the seetings I needed to change.

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:16 am

Yes, that's what I was referring to. The soulgem is now only worth 3000 gold or something like that, and the urge to steal it isn't nearly as big as before.

Concerning the transportation fees, I decided to edit your mod a little bit so that teleportation is now more expensive. Your documentation is very detailed, so that I had no problems finding the seetings I needed to change.

Ah, yeah... that makes sense.

And I'm glad that the effort I took to document my changes wasn't wasted. It always bugged me how readmes in mods never really told me what I wanted to know about them.

» Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:40 pm

Hey, I'm liking the mod, but I have one problem: the settings esp makes the unarmored skill better, which makes all the telvanni guards naked. I checked in the cs, and their stats make no sense: medium armor at 7, unarmored at 21 or so and heavy armor at 75. I don't know what to do apart from manually raising their medium armor skill in the CS. Before I do this, does anyone have any advice on a better way to fix the issue?