BTB are you archiving any of the previous versions or just some of the must important version e.g. v4.0? I still have alot too learn about modding and how the CS works and it would be interesting too have some of the previous version for reference and study. Currently I have v3.1, 4.0, 4.1, 5.0 and 5.3 .

No, I'm not. But I've put enough detail into the changelog that you should know exactly what's changed from version to version.

If you want Stacet, I have 4.2, 5.1 and 5.2 if you'd like them. I didn't download this until 4.0...

That sounds great. Please send me a PM when you get the time.

Well, one thing that I've pretty much already decided on is that I'm going to knock the cost of training back down to twice the original cost. Since training is now so important to the game rather than just a convenience, I need to make it a little more accessible to the beginning player.

I'll take the rest of the weekend to mull it over most likely and then release an update on Monday or so.

BTB - Quick note of thanks for putting together your mod list. I'm coming back to Morrowind after quite a few years and it was extremely helpful to get a sense of what mods were out there and, more importantly, why you recommend using them.

I don't know what your thinking is on this, but I think, yeah, the training costs should be lower for beginning characters, and then increase in price for the higher level characters.

I can't do that. The training GMST is linear, not exponential.

Physical god mode: potions of sanctuary.

BTB, as you try to prevent easy game abuses, I think you should remove the sanctuary effect from ingredients.
The reason is you only have to drink a few (2 to 4) handmade potions of sanctuary to become impossible to be hit by physical attacks.
The sanctuary effect is easy to obtain as it is easy to collect scuttles and bonemeals.
Maybe this effect could be move to more rare and more expensive ingredients.

Sanctuary spells are fine, as they are not stackable, and one have to have a good Illusion skill as well as enough mana/wisdom to use them.

I had thought about this, but I figured that the effect cost would render the duration low enough to stop it from being too game-breaking.

What kind of potions are you brewing, if I might ask, in terms of magnitude/duration?

I need to make an update to my mod soon anyways, what with the training cost and all. I've just been dragging my feet about it since I've been on shift at work this week.

With 75 intelligence and 75 alchemy I generate sanctuary potions with approx 40 points for 120 sec.
So 3 potions give me a bonus of 120 for 2 minutes and considering the chance to hit http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Combat:

Chance to hit = Attacker's weapon skill * 1.25 + Attacker's Attack (e.g. Warrior = 10) - Defender's Sanctuary (e.g. Thief = 10)  + (Attacker's Agility - Defender's Agility) * 0.25 + (Attacker's Luck - Defender's Luck) * 0.125

Nobody can hit me.

Yeah... I should probably reel that one back in.

I guess I'll replace it with blight disease resistance.

By the way... is this with the master alchemy equipment? Also, are you also using the "Spells" plugin?

I'm still thinking about it, and it seems to me like it may be a good idea to reduce the durations of potions as a whole due to the ability to stack them.

Wouldn't prevent the stacking be better? Is it possible? Something like the dispel effect you used with soul trap?

Can the dispel be specific to an effect?

Yes, it would be.



Nope.

I'm still thinking on it, though... this is the first day I've had free to do so in a week or so, so we'll see where I end up.

I was reading your list (great work by the way), and couple of questions come to mind.

About the Economy Adjuster, Misc, it seems that some modifications conflict with your own BTB modifications. Like the training cost modifier. Also, you wrote on your list: "The Morrowind Code Patch (discussed at length near the bottom of this list) has since dealt with this problem far more effectively. " Does this mean that this plugin should not be used, if MCP is used and that fix is enabled?

Perhaps the misc changes in economy adjuster should be integrated to your Settings plugin?

Also, I feel that the temple should not refuse services (at least healing ones) to non-members, since that is what they do, heal people, and spread their word. Perhaps even bartering should be enabled.

Another thing I would change, is the fact that the Imperial Legion merchants don't sell equipment to non-members, which is strange, since for example the Legion base near Balmora is filled with merchants, but who would they sell their stuff if not to outsiders? They can't really make any money selling stuff to each other.

Any thoughts about these?

Well, yeah. My mod is meant to replace the Misc plugin of Economy Adjuster. All of its changes except one have been worked into my mod, as I point out in the main readme for BTBGI.



You're talking about the soul gem price fix. And yes, the MCP invalidates the need to fix the price of filled soul gems by reducing the cost of empty ones, as Economy Adjuster does.



You're talking about Service Requirements, I take it. And no, it does not prevent Temple members from healing non-members (check the readme).



It's best if you don't think about that sort of thing. Morrowind doesn't work if you start poking holes in its video game logic >.>

All right, good. So basically, only the Crime and Merchant skill plugins are really useful or necessary in your list? Perhaps you should delete those obsolete .esps from your archives, which you don't recommend using?



Interesting. This is probably "my bad". I must have had some other mod conflicting or something, since I have had trouble getting healed by the Temple people.



There are other errors than programming ones too . But all right.

Also, a suggestion, I don't seem to be able to get Madd Leveler to work if I use "Quick char" mod which you have in your list, perhaps you might mention that on your webpage? While you don't recommend Madd, many people use it, and it would be good to know.

Madd Leveler seems to get activated when you enter Sellus Gravius's office, and since Quick Char teleports you there, it doesn't get activated. Although I have not looked at any scripts, since I don't yet know anything about CS.

Yep.



Part of my respect to the original authors of the mods I host is never removing any content from their original downloads. I just try to make it as clear as possible in the commentary on my list which modules I do and don't recommend using.



Can't say I'm familiar with Madd Leveler, but I can see where you'd run into the problem.

Yeah, Madd Leveler is similar to GCD, changes the leveling method and skill progression, so it's a major mod. Many, many people use it.

But on another matter, a request: you have made a fixed version of Darknut's Greater Dwemer Ruins. Could you make a similar fixed version to the Necessities of Morrowind (NOM) version of the plugin too? It is included in DNGDR archive. It woulde be a great addition, since the new NOM 3.0 is such a great mod, and I would like to play them both at the same time.

I can do that.

I'll post it later tonight.

Master and grand master set.

Yes I do. I'm using BTB 5.3 (except skill caps) + GCD.


It may do the job for most effects.
Maybe the effects which don't last long may become useless if you shorten their time furthermore though.

Yeah, that's my concern.

We'll see. I'll post here when I actually think of something.

Ok, let's take a look at something here.

Sanctuary is, quite simply, the physical combat version of Reflection and Spell Absorption, both spell effects I spent great lengths of time trying to balance while actually rendering them still usable.

Under the game's default rules, the base cost of Reflection and Spell Absorption is 10.00, rendering them more or less worthless due to their prohibitive costs. My mod actually lowers the effect cost of the latter two effects to 6.00 so that you can still make halfway decent potions with them, and the pre-made spells I provide make up for the fact that custom spells are still going to svck pretty bad unless you're going for a minimum duration to crank up the magnitude. Honestly, I think my only mistake here was treating Sanctuary any differently than these two effects.

My mod raises Sanctuary's default cost from a paltry 1.00 to a slightly less-paltry 1.20, which is mainly because I still wanted custom Sanctuary spells to be a viable choice. But with it now also present as an alchemy effect, that's just not an option anymore. I've decided that what I really need to do is crank up the effect cost of Sanctuary to match its top-tier brothers from the school of Mysticism. Again, even a cost of 6.00 is significantly less than the original costs of Reflection and Spell Absorption, and both effects are similar enough to that of Sanctuary to warrant the same cost.

Yes, this makes the pre-made spells pretty much the only practical option as far as spells go, but this was pretty much already the case with Spell Absorption and Reflection, and in their case it was actually an improvement over the way they were handled before. Thus, I don't imagine anyone would complain about the change.

If I understand well, you suggest to reduce the effectiveness of sanctuary potions to a fifth (in points or in duration?) of the current one.
I guess I'm ok, as one will still be able to get a decent bonus protection when stacking a few potions, but he'll not be able to do it for all fights nor turn into a god mode for 2 minutes with only 2 or 3 potions.
I'm glad you've considered balancing the sanctuary effect, thx.