BTB's Game Improvements & The Raiders of the Lost Topic : III - Morrowind

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:50 pm

thanks, I unchecked the 'culprit' and loaded my game and started a new one. It didn't change anything in either of them. Have I done something wrong with the uninstallation?

Removing that change is a simple matter of unchecking the box then clicking "Apply chosen patches" again.

If that isn't working, I suggest making sure BTB's plugins are loading last.

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:15 pm

Removing that change is a simple matter of unchecking the box then clicking "Apply chosen patches" again.

If that isn't working, I suggest making sure BTB's plugins are loading last.

Done all that and still the same outcome. Tested with both a new game and my old save.
I'm using Seydan Neen and the cave opposite its Strider as a test - as well as the Dissident Priests temple: Hollo-something or other. The Imperial Guards in Seyda Neen attack as you'd assume, with their weapons. The citizens all whip out the paralyze spells. Of the 3 enemies in the cave opp the Strider, two constantly use paralyze spells (hide behind a post and they'll do it for ages) whilst the mage acts appropriately - drain agility spell before drawing his weapon. Oh and this paralysis barrage extends to the Immersive Chargen opening riot scene. I've seen footage of them all punching/stabbing each other online, yet in mine the dark elves are awfully insistent in attempting to paralyze the guards. The Dissident Temple was a mixed bag. The more 'generic' NPCs again whipped out the paralyze spells, but Ms Milo and the leader of the Priests all used more appropriate methods of attack.

I'm guessing I have a conflict with another mod, but I can only think of Darknut's Greater Dwemer Ruins (as this barrage of paralysis extends to the dreamers as well) which may have affected how NPCs attack. Pherhaps a quest mod?

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:47 am

Done all that and still the same outcome. Tested with both a new game and my old save.
I'm using Seydan Neen and the cave opposite its Strider as a test - as well as the Dissident Priests temple: Hollo-something or other. The Imperial Guards in Seyda Neen attack as you'd assume, with their weapons. The citizens all whip out the paralyze spells. Of the 3 enemies in the cave opp the Strider, two constantly use paralyze spells (hide behind a post and they'll do it for ages) whilst the mage acts appropriately - drain agility spell before drawing his weapon. Oh and this paralysis barrage extends to the Immersive Chargen opening riot scene. I've seen footage of them all punching/stabbing each other online, yet in mine the dark elves are awfully insistent in attempting to paralyze the guards. The Dissident Temple was a mixed bag. The more 'generic' NPCs again whipped out the paralyze spells, but Ms Milo and the leader of the Priests all used more appropriate methods of attack.

I'm guessing I have a conflict with another mod, but I can only think of Darknut's Greater Dwemer Ruins (as this barrage of paralysis extends to the dreamers as well) which may have affected how NPCs attack. Pherhaps a quest mod?

The only advice I can give you at this point is to deactivate the mods you suspect might be causing the issue, then check whether there is a difference in-game. If it isn't any of what you suspect, and you have a lot of mods, then deactivate all your mods and start reactivating and testing the least suspect ones.

Also, BTB, I am sad that you didn't seem to show up today. Was hoping for release. :sadvaultboy:

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:13 pm

Found it! Yorick's Tower Quest causes the conflict. Or it gave 'everyone' a ranged paralysis spell. Thanks for your help.
Love the mod BT, on a seperate note I also get the telvanni guards stripping down for me in Sadrith Mora, but not in Vos, or anywhere else I believe.... how peculiar

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:21 pm

on a seperate note I also get the telvanni guards stripping down for me in Sadrith Mora, but not in Vos, or anywhere else I believe.... how peculiar

I think this has something to do with a tweak that makes guards realize that they have a better armored rating without wearing anything due to the unarmored skill.

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:05 pm

I think this has something to do with a tweak that makes guards realize that they have a better armored rating without wearing anything due to the unarmored skill.

Yeah, since BTB boosted the max AR of Unarmored I suppose that some NPCs(especially guards) will need their stats adjusted.

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:03 pm

I'd forgotten how long the process of actually making the changes to the plugins actually takes. It certainly doesn't help that the CS is literally the most user-unfriendly piece of [censored] [censored] I have ever had the displeasure of working with. Whoever designed it deserves some sort of sandpaper/acid bath treatment. It's also the step where I tend to catch a lot of errors, which I then have to fix, which also takes time.

Anyway, I'm back on shift for the week, and it's kind of our busy season, so... well, yeah, it may take a little bit longer.

And by "may", I mean "will". Right now, I'm just trying to make it through the day without killing someone.

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:54 am

I'd forgotten how long the process of actually making the changes to the plugins actually takes. It certainly doesn't help that the CS is literally the most user-unfriendly piece of [censored] [censored] I have ever had the displeasure of working with. Whoever designed it deserves some sort of sandpaper/acid bath treatment. It's also the step where I tend to catch a lot of errors, which I then have to fix, which also takes time.

You may not believe me, but I've worked with editors that made me miss working with the CS.

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:02 pm

You may not believe me, but I've worked with editors that made me miss working with the CS.

Oh, our customer management system ehre at work is a close second to the CS in terms of I want to strangle the person who made it.

On the plus side, since the guy who designed it is our lead programmer, I actually *can* strangle him if I want to.

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:37 pm

I'd forgotten how long the process of actually making the changes to the plugins actually takes. It certainly doesn't help that the CS is literally the most user-unfriendly piece of [censored] [censored] I have ever had the displeasure of working with. Whoever designed it deserves some sort of sandpaper/acid bath treatment. It's also the step where I tend to catch a lot of errors, which I then have to fix, which also takes time.

You've probably already looked at this, but just in case: Have you tried http://mwedit.sourceforge.net/? It's in permanent beta, and I usually find that I have to open and resave files with the Enchanted editor, but it makes cut and paste operations and stat adjustments much easier, IMO.

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:08 pm

You've probably already looked at this, but just in case: Have you tried http://mwedit.sourceforge.net/? It's in permanent beta, and I usually find that I have to open and resave files with the Enchanted editor, but it makes cut and paste operations and stat adjustments much easier, IMO.

MWEdit and I are currently not on speaking terms.

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:43 pm

MWEdit and I are currently not on speaking terms.

Oh, what happened?

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:31 pm

Oh, what happened?

Have a look http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?showtopic=1157286&view=findpost&p=16991658.

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:41 pm

Wow, so maybe it wont be until this next Thursday.

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:15 pm

Any other economy/loot mod recommended if this is used?

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:02 pm

BTB has a list of his recommendations on his website if you haven't looked at that.

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:09 am

Reviewing that - I'm a bit confused.

[edit] ... nevermind - having read the edits he made to Economy Adjuster it is all clear.

[edit 2] http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=5498 though seems like it might compliment the combo of BTB and EA. It seems to mainly adjust gold available to merchants and then give bonuses for faction rank.

I ran it and EA through conflict detector and saw no conflicts - though that probably does not account for scripts.

thoughts?

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:04 pm

Honestly, no idea.

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:44 pm

Reviewing that - I'm a bit confused.

[edit] ... nevermind - having read the edits he made to Economy Adjuster it is all clear.

[edit 2] http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=5498 though seems like it might compliment the combo of BTB and EA. It seems to mainly adjust gold available to merchants and then give bonuses for faction rank.

I ran it and EA through conflict detector and saw no conflicts - though that probably does not account for scripts.

thoughts?

The reason BTB doesn't recommend it is most likely due to its dependence on the script extender. It seems like it should be perfectly compatible from what I have read about the mods, though you might want to test Improved bartering on its own first however just to make sure it is stable, it can be a common problem with those kinds of mods.

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:09 am

An explanation for the continued delay...

See, even during the final phase of actually making the changes to the plugins, I tend to discover more things that need fixing. In this case, as I was editing the "Equipment" plugin, I noticed that I still wasn't entirely happy with the balance of different armor sets, particularly the nearly-identical sets of early-game light armor. So, there's been much being edited on that front.

Nordic fur is now the cheapest and lightest, netch leather is a bit more expensive and much more durable, and chitin is a bit more expensive still.

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:36 am

Yeah, it's kind of boring for all those pieces to be so similar. It really serves only for aesthetic appeal so that NPCs look more diverse rather than all wearing the same set. One of the (few)appeals, I think, in vanilla of Medium Armor is that it has sets that offer a greater range of different values(cuirasses: 10->12->16->17->20->30->40->45) so that you can more reasonably increment upward toward the best. Light Armor jumps from 10 base armour points to 50.

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:56 pm

Here's the lowdown:

Spoiler

? Nordic Fur Bracer - weight from default (1.5) to 0.5

? Nordic Fur Gauntlet - weight from default (1.5) to 1.0, health from default (25) to 50

? Nordic Fur Pauldron - weight from default (3.0) to 1.0

? Nordic Fur Helm - weight from default (1.5) to 1.0

? Nordic Fur Boots - weight from default (6.0) to 2.0

? Nordic Fur Greaves - weight from default (5.4) to 2.0

? Nordic Fur Cuirass - weight from default (9.0) to 3.0

? Nordic Bearskin Cuirass - weight from default (9.0) to 6.0, health from default (150) to 200

? Nordic Leather Shield - weight from default (4.5) to 2.0

? Netch Leather Gauntlet - value from default (7) to 25, health from default (25) to 100

? Netch Leather Pauldron - value from default (12) to 25, health from default (50) to 150

? Netch Leather Helm - value from default (15) to 50, health from default (50) to 150

? Netch Leather Boots - value from default (10) to 50, health from default (50) to 150

? Netch Leather Greaves - value from default (22) to 50, health from default (50) to 150

? Netch Leather Cuirass - value from default (35) to 100, health from default (150) to 250

? Netch Leather Shield - value from default (17) to 100, health from default (100) to 200

? Netch Leather Tower Shield - value from default (25) to 150, health from default (100) to 250

? Boiled Netch Leather Helm - value from default (17) to 150, health from default (70) to 200

? Boiled Netch Leather Cuirass - value from default (37) to 250, health from default (210) to 300

? Chitin Gauntlet - value from 9 to 50

? Chitin Pauldron - value from 16 to 50

? Chitin Helm - value from 19 to 100

? Chitin Mask Helm - value from 19 to 200, health from 100 to 150

? Chitin Boots - value from 13 to 100

? Chitin Greaves - value from 29 to 100

? Chitin Cuirass - value from 45 to 150, health from default (300) to 200

? Chitin Shield - value from 22 to 150, health from default (200) to 150

? Chitin Tower Shield - value from 32 to 200, health from default (240) to 200

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:56 pm

Are you sticking with default AR values?

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:25 pm

Are you sticking with default AR values?

Yep.

Now I need to go over the random "Nordic" type armors that are functionally identical to other pieces of medium and heavy armor.

» Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:52 pm

All righty, here's what else is going on in the world of armor...

* Bear and Snow Bear armor is a bit too overpowered, so I'm scaling it back down to the same level as Wolf armor. This puts regular Bear armor at just a little better than Bonemold (thus making it worth it to go get early on, but not *that* worth it) and snow bear just a little weaker than Dreugh (with the advantage that there's nearly a full set of it).

* Dark Brotherhood gear is getting scaled back from 30 to 25. This gives me some extra room to make more equipment that's preferable to it.

* Indoril armor is really hard to deal with, since you can harvest it as soon as you're able to take out Ordinators. I've moved it back to an armor rating of 40, which makes it equal to Dreugh. Conveniently enough, the two pieces of Indoril equipmnent that will piss off Ordinators (the cuirass and helm) are available as Dreugh equipment. For further balance, I'll be lowering the durability of Indoril equipment (one of the fundamental flaws of equipment that's more for show than for effectiveness) and greatly raising the health of Adamantium equipment (which in turn will help it out against Royal Guard armor). The only problem I see with this is that it will render Dreugh equipment essentially superior to Indoril equipment in every way... unless I make Indoril equipment lighter or increase the enchant capacity.

*I'm swapping the effectiveness and Ebony and Nordic Mail armor back around, since Ebony is fairly effectively balanced by being frickin' heavy as all hell.

*Dwemer Armor is getting another boost from 30 to 40. I'm currently working on closing the gap left behind by raising the effectiveness of Steel, Imperial Steel, and Ancient Steel.