*nods* I eventually decided to set it back to zero. Mostly because I thought BTB's changes to alchemy actually made it easier to raise alchemy by eating ingredients (so the idea being, I'm guessing, in much of the early game you eat them instead of making potions off of them, then as your alchemy skill improves/you get good equipment, you start to make higher quality potions that are more useful).

I mean when I did make low level early potions, such as restore fatigues and healing potions I'd end up with negative effects that would be...bearable (like restore fatigue potion that paralyzes), so it'd be fine to use outside of battle, but some potions which came up (like one potion (I think it was feather) meant to lighten my load while traveling, also gave me a fatigue damage so high and for so long that it would just knock you out for longer than the feather lasted. Making the potion pretty much useless. SO I figured with results like that we are actually more meant to eat up ingredients we gather in order to get their primary effect most of the time, until we get good enough equipment to make it worth while even bothering.

And I actually don't steal the high quality alchemy set from the Caldera's mages guild. Most of the time my early alchemy set consists of the apprectice mortal/pestle you can get from Arrile, the Journeyman Ambelic from Tyrriillian (The Altmer Blades Trainer) and the Calcinator you can buy from Ajira. I typically buy or take alchemy equipment when its given as a gift/reward.

It got mentioned a long time ago on the Planet Elder Scrolls page of your mod, and you said you were going to look into it, but I've seen it occur with a very recent version of your mod, so I can assure you, it is a remaining issue, and therefore I just wanted to let you know. According to this guy...


... it's not just aesthetic - the extra multiplier is not applied. Do with it what you will.

The only change you would have to make is to move files 'History.txt' and 'Readme.txt' to one of two existing folders (e.g., 'BTB's Game Improvements'). Of course, these two files in their current place might help to someone who downloaded your mod for first time, so...

I think here you a bit misunderstood me - my suggestion was about renaming just actual downloadable archive (morrowind_btb.zip).

Well, in fact even rar would be better than zip. Just tested just for fun - zip: 326,877 bytes, rar: 233,898 bytes.
Take care!

Actually, I just drop the morrowind_btb.zip into my Installers folder used by Wyre Mash, and both the main folder and sub folder for the extras show up just fine as they are currently set up.

Just tested myself, and it indeed does show up. I guess, I must have confused this with some other mod. Well, case closed then.

Sort of. My real intention was to make it to where there was at least *some* point in eating ingredients in the first place. Setting the primary effect as a positive one for all ingredients was mostly a consistency thing, since there's only a handful that possess a positive effect worth actually eating an ingredient for (water breathing/walking, slowfall, restore magicka/health/attribute) instead of just brewing a potion. And, yeah, the experience gain is also a push in the same direction, as well.

The cost of self-made potions remaining at zero is also another reason to not just brew up potions for the hell of it (or rather, to promote the eating of raw ingredients if you're just looking for a bit o' experience). I really try to discourage making potions unless you actually want the resulting potion, just as I try to discourage spamming/grinding of every other skill in the game. Alchemy is unique in that it's the only skill whose grinding generally results in a by-product that can be sold for massive profit, which is really bad in the sense that Alchemy is still probably the most useful skill in the entire game (even with my mod).

The only problem with this is that items with a value of zero can be sold for 1 gold and then purchased back for none. I think it's going to be up to the MCP to fix that one.

So, I'm back to actually playing the game, and I'm noticing that my alchemy tweaks in the previous update have really pushed negative ingredient effects into functioning how I want them to. This is the first time I've actually gone to the trouble of amassing Kwamma Cuttle for water breathing potions because the amount of poison damage I'd take from a Hackle-Lo/Luminous Russula combo just isn't worth it.

Hey, couldn't you still drink the poisonous water breathing potion, then immediately cast (or otherwise achieve) a Cure Poison effect on yourself?
Or utilize a Resist Poison effect (which some races have naturally). Since I think those would still work with a potion, knowing you, you may want to "fix" this.

Anyway, glad you're actually playing the game now. Keep up the good work on your mod list and and this mod -- we share a mind for the most part, though you do do some silliness IMO every now and then. Still love your work, though.
Some requests/tips:
-Character builds: consider enforcing specialization. No jack of all trades. Have the class Specialization be more meaningful. Even though you can mix major/minor/misc skills as you will, you shouldn't be able to master all of the three major fields (Combat, Magic, Stealth). The technicalities are relatively easy to work out -- for example, only Magic-specializing characters can get Destruction, Alteration, Mysticism above 60 (or so) and gain access to certain high-level magic. Perhaps only mage-characters may attempt to self-enchant. Similar things with Long Blade, Armorer, Heavy Armor... for Combat and Sneak, Security, Light Armor... for Stealth. Whether skills are Major, Minor or Misc (or racial, etc) will of course tie into this - the more focused your character is on a skill, the higher maximum level you'll be able to get it to (perhaps you'd only be able to max out skills at -100- that are both Major and are part of your Specialization, for example). If someone still really wants to be more like a jack of all trades, they still can (unnaturally) by putting in some work and sacrificing their Constant Effect buffs for Fortify Skills, for example... The overall design needs to be fleshed out, however.
-Why do you seem to submit to pure-mage characters being simply being inferior? It doesn't have to be this way, and frankly I don't think it'd take all that much work to fix. The main thing they need is more Magicka and/or less cost for spells as skills go up (there are mods that do this already). Note they improved this issue in Oblivion - *every* character there gets at least double the amount of Magicka compared to MW, as well as a pretty strong Magicka regeneration. An Altmer Atronach, for example, also receives a 250 point Magicka bonus on start, in addition to the above (although Atronach negates regeneration, but you can always choose Apprentice instead if needed, for an almost as big a bonus).
I think stuff like tough opponents could be handled with backup skills (if not pure mage), strategy and use of self buffs and enemy debuffs (those spells and effects aren't useless, though some are broken/too costly by default such as Burden), etc. Reflection and Spell Absorption can be countered by having your own Reflection, using buffs and debuffs so you can survive until you can breach the defense, and of course, summoned helpers (Conjuration) and companions. There are options out there, and most definitely I am not even capable of considering them all.
Of course - this is how it seems to me - and I haven't played a pure mage yet, either.
-Reconsider doing something with the multipliers leveling system. Probably similarly to you, I don't, by default, like complicated or script-heavy revamps too much, and it seems using mods like GCD lowers stability. The multipliers issue remains -- it cannot be stressed enough -- it encourages any knowledgeable player to go out of their way to ensure they're not gimping their characters. This gets in the way of actually playing, and while it's interesting and novel at the beginning, it gets old. I often had to abandon quests and other tasks in the middle because oh no, I'm getting close to leveling up. What kind of sense is that? And sense or no sense, it's not fun.
-I guess you've realized this, but you should probably release BTBGI less often, and make more calculated changes. o_O Just look at your pace and changelog.
"1.0 - Initial release. No further versions are planned unless something in this one is broken or something." Well, you're beyond version 12 now, and you're still not near the end and you *still* find things broken. So slowing down the pace is probably a good idea, as there's no hurry forcing to update quickly (AFAIK).

And redheads are hot.

Nakashi, it might be worth your time to take another look at GCD. It takes care of some of the issues you mention above: First, it takes care of the leveling crazyness, that's its main goal; second, it takes care of the specialization problem by favoring skills that have higher starting values - training misc skills with 5 starting level doesn't add much to attributes; third, the side benefit of favoring high starting values gives very high magicka to pure mages, a Breton/Mage/BTB combo will start with over 300 magicka and slow regeneration as well.

As far as stability goes, I've used every version of GCD since it came out and never have had a problem with stability (on three different computers). I am currently using Gluby's 1.08 fixed version.

I've read other kinds of comments on GCD's stability, but you can never know. You bear good news for me - thanks for your info, testimony and suggestion. I'll have to, at the very least, give it a try sometime.

Funny you should bring that up, as I'm currently lugging around a "cure common disease/poison" potion with a "cure poison/paralysis" potion to offset it. I don't really mind doing it this way, since it's essentially doubling the number of ingredients required for a "safe" cure disease potion, plus it's also pretty hard to brew up a cure poison potion with no negative side effects.


Thanks. I'm officially farther in the game now than I've ever been - I'm at level three (seeing my first Nix-Hounds hanging around Seyda Neen, which is weird), and I am getting my ass handed to me *constantly*. That one bandit cave in the foyada to the northwest of Seyda Neen? [censored] brutal, man. Just the way I like it.


The problem is that this mod almost sort of forces a more well-rounded character build if you want to do well in the game. Specialist characters are generally going to be much, much more limited in what they can do, although they will have an easier time advancing through certain factions (assuming the use of my edited Service Requirements plugin).


I wouldn't call them "inferior", just harder to play - especially early on.

The "Oblivion" approach is to give you more magicka and to make it recharge naturally, which essentially renders your maximum magicka a fairly meaningless number for the most part. My approach is to make the "restore magicka" effect much easier to come by, but not easy enough that it's the given I feel that Oblivion makes it.


I really don't see all the hate on the multiplier system, especially after playing it myself. I'm at level three right now, and the amount of micro-managing I've done to get the multipliers I got seemed in no way excessive. In two levels, I've gotten the following gains:

x2 Strength
x4 Intelligence
x7 Agility
x7 Speed

That's 20 out of 30 possible points, and I didn't really go out of my way for any of it. I just paid a minimal amount of attention to the skills I was leveling and trained up the appropriate other skills to fill in the holes. The only "excessive" amount of training I did was six levels in enchant, but that was something I wanted even not considering the multiplier. The amount of effort I would have put into getting any more out of those levels than what I got would have offset the benefits tremendously, so there's no feeling that I've "gimped" myself for settling.


Would now be a bad time to mention that I need to do another minor update at some point to rearrange a few ingredient effects? >.>

The way I see it, the updating rate of your mod is not a problem at all. People just need to decide for themselves if the update is major enough for them to follow. If not, they can wait another version or 2. Your changelog is detailed enough for that. Hell, I'm still several versions behind in both character and alchemy plugins.

I agree with you, but actually I posted only because I realized just now that I have Kira's avatar while you have L's one and I find it much looooooooooool ))))))

I didn't want to email you so I posted it here, its just a small suggestion for your modlist that I found on midgetaliens "official" mod list

http://mw.modhistory.com/download--5540

I have a further question BTB.

I've been working on playing through the game with a pure mage, specifically a "mind control" type mage (using command effects from conjuration/emotional manipulation from Illusion) along with being the manipulative character type (again illusion goes well with this) along with Speechcraft as another of my major skills.

Generally I was pondering a set up like:

Major Skills
Alteration
Conjuration
Destruction
Illusion
Speechcraft

Minor Skills
Alchemy
Enchantment
Restoration
Mysticism
Unarmored

Now I began to realize, as a character this one loves using magic, so I'd probably want to cast as much of any of the schools as possible too. So I began to wonder to myself, should I bother with alchemy as a minor skill at all???

I mean I'd likely want to pickup any given spell effect that alchemy would give me anyway from a potion. (for reference I'm using an oblivion style magic regeneration setup). I mean I've enjoyed alchemy in the past, but I wasn't sure but would it be worthwhile to pick it up if you are already aimed at using a diverse array of magical effects as a mage type character?


Also arizzi nice suggestion there. I think I myself will change out Seige of Firemoth for this version of the Quest. Though I'm still not sure what level I should play it at.

Alchemy and Enchant are both great skills IF you lack all the magic schools at a high level. I'd recommend removing Alchemy and taking Mercantile. Enchant is ALSO something you can sacrifice given that you'll have 24/7 access to each and every spell in the game; something Enchanted gear, non-CE stuff anyway, are meant as a replacement for those schools, giving you access to whichever aspect of it you require. Just like Alchemy.

How would one go about getting rid of chameleon from the game any ways? Isn't it hard coded onto the dvdrom disc?
Illusion is my 3rd major skill. All the schools are major, except for conjuration. So I would be upset if chameleon were removed.

At Alexandr:

I see what your saying. Though with BTB changes enchant becomes MUCH less about enchanting items, and much more about restoring power to already owned magic items. They don't recharge anymore, nor can you enchant your own stuff without going to an enchanter as BTB has set it.

Can enchanters "recharge" your magic items the way an armor can repair gear for you? If not, would it be a bad idea if they did?

Also what about the ability to drink a bunch of potions faster than casting a spell? Does that make alchemy worthwhile in that case???

I don't think you understand anything.

You don't understand either. Enchant is useful for non-mages because it allows them access to spells otherwise impossible to cast. As a mage with every school at a decent level, you have access to everything. You can have Enchant as well, but you don't NEED to. Alchemy is the ability to MAKE potions, not USE them. Keep a reservoir of healing potions for instant gratification. Taking the skill just makes it so that you can put together some of your own potions.

12.2 is up. Minor update that corrects/tweaks a few ingredient effects in the "Alchemy" plugin.

I'd like to ask if the better clothes complete edit is compatible with MGSO's mods--coz there are a lot of mods there. Also, is this compatible with graphic herbalism? Right now I'm only using character plugin (thinking about spell plugin, but the other 3 right now i a no for me unless I can fully check the compatibility lists).

Im sorry if i'm a little picky but I recently experienced a devastating breaking of my Morrowind experience because I didn't get to track which mods conflicts with what (check my recent topics and you'll understand). I reinstalled the game with carefully selected mods and I never experienced a crash ever since. I really like the character plugin posted here, also the spells, equipment, alchemy, and setting, but Im really reserved with their compatibility to MGSO mods (i somehow feel that some of the mods there are edited/merged plugins).

Im really hoping for a quick response since like you I am noticing the exploits easily achieved in Vanilla Morrowind.

EDIT:
I installed all the plugins by the way. Just followed the readme.
I noticed that the magical sorting icons of MGSO is disabled by BTBGI. Hope you could incorporate the mods (New Icons and Potion), or at least the idea behind it.

I'm not familiar with the workings of either mod you mention. Easiest way to check for conflicts is to download TESPCD and check your setup with it.

the new spells and potions basically renames the potions and changes their images to make it easier to sort and pick. For example, bargain health potions are now named Health Potion Bargain. Uniquely named potions (such as greef, mazte, flin, etc) are given a "-" in start and end, so they look like -mazte-, -greef-, etc. The icons part basically changes the icons so that they look like their signs in the character sheet (instead of a closed scroll). They kinda look like this:

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l498/imanoobsowhat27/Morrowind%20Errors/MGEScreenshot18.jpg
(this is a pre-BTB pic of mine)

There's a mod like that (merged by MGSO), but it conflicts with your mod (of course I choose your mod over them). Anyway, it'll be a good addition to your mods (if I weigh them I would like the name changer better as it doesn't require any new file).

PS
I tested your mods (installed all of them now) and I don't have any conflicts as of the moment.

EDIT:
I checked TESCPD and noticed several conflicts with other mods. Question: If a mod overrides the other mod, will it override the whole entry or just the part that it modifies? For example a mod that gives a new icon to an armor overrides a mod that gives a new effect to the same armor...will the overriding esp not take the changes by the overriden mod even if they modify different parts of the entry?

Yes, the whole entry gets overwritten.