BTB's Game Improvements - The Topic : III - Morrowind

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:43 pm

Wonder what would have happened if we made unarmored skill give linear AR...

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:52 pm

Wonder what would have happened if we made unarmored skill give linear AR...

"Ooh, look, this looks like a good mod to install!"

*Install, install*

"...WTF? Why is everyone naked!?

"

Anyways, version 6.3 is up... or, at least it will be when the PES servers decide to update.

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:42 am

Are there any other guards besides the Telvanni that do it?

Also, as we've already discussed, I fixed the problem by raising the Light & Medium armor skills of Telvanni guards, but it's yet to be seen how the issue can be applied to an existing game.

Well, I played modded morrowind, but the symptoms is the same.

Everytime I encountered naked npc, I kill them(sethealth 0) and check their inventories. All of those naked npcs have their armors but they didn't have any clothings. So yeah

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:52 pm

Well, I played modded morrowind, but the symptoms is the same.

Everytime I encountered naked npc, I kill them(sethealth 0) and check their inventories. All of those naked npcs have their armors but they didn't have any clothings. So yeah

Anyone in specific?

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:42 am

Anyone in specific?

So far no original npcs naked, but those added from mod-added npcs did. Vampire Hunter npc from Creatures X stripped their armor, Some npc additions from Starfire's NPC Additions too, And all low Hlaalu Hireling from RAK Faction Overhaul. Also a guard from Pelagiad Provisions. All of them has the same symptoms(Have an armor but not a clothes)

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:48 pm

To me this is a confirmation that Unarmored works as expected. I mean, it is not very smart if NPC AIs wouldn't take their best armor (rating-wise). OTOH they should be given robes in case they are high level unarmored. If I encounter them, I am going to donate robes via "gift exchange" (an older mod from CDCooley).

Interestingly, my Telvanni Guards in Sadrith Mora are female...

Version 6.2 (December 24, 2010)

"SETTINGS" PLUGIN:

? Removed edits to fTravelMult and fMagesGuildTravel GMSTs, reducing the cost of fast travel back to the original value(s).

Those GMSTs still seem to be active.

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:11 pm

Those GMSTs still seem to be active.

I just checked, and it looks like you probably just got an old, updated version from the PES servers.

Something of a moot point, though, as I will need to release *another* update tomorrow. Apparently, [censored] with the Telvanni guard stats was making someone's game crash when they went to Sadrith Mora, and the same thing is happening to me.

EDIT: also, I wasn't seeing any naked guards without the edits. Something tells me that this problem may be the result of another mod editing the stats of Telvanni guards.

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:28 am

I just checked, and it looks like you probably just got an old, updated version from the PES servers.

Something of a moot point, though, as I will need to release *another* update tomorrow. Apparently, [censored] with the Telvanni guard stats was making someone's game crash when they went to Sadrith Mora, and the same thing is happening to me.

EDIT: also, I wasn't seeing any naked guards without the edits. Something tells me that this problem may be the result of another mod editing the stats of Telvanni guards.

I'm not far enough to arrive to telvanni lands so I don't know those guards yet. I do encounter those npcs naked on a few of mods. I checked those mods with CS and they are not naked(They wear their appropriate armors) which left me no clue why those npcs naked in my game.....except maybe gmst edits as it affects everything

I need to go now and can't test, but I will test it later whether fUnarmoredBase2(and thus your mod) is the culprit of my problems

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:39 pm

I do encounter those npcs naked on a few of mods. I checked those mods with CS and they are not naked(They wear their appropriate armors) which left me no clue why those npcs naked in my game.....except maybe gmst edits as it affects everything

It's a matter of armor rating. NPCs always put on the sort of armor that provides the best armor rate. Unarmored now provides better armor rate than before, so if NPC skills for light/medium/heavy armor are lower in relation to Unarmored, then Unarmored provides more protection than armor. NPCs put away their real armor in this case.
Mods like Fashionable Merchants set Unarmored skills of merchants to 100. This prevents merchants to put on armor they are buying from you.

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:24 pm

I'm not far enough to arrive to telvanni lands so I don't know those guards yet. I do encounter those npcs naked on a few of mods. I checked those mods with CS and they are not naked(They wear their appropriate armors) which left me no clue why those npcs naked in my game.....except maybe gmst edits as it affects everything

I need to go now and can't test, but I will test it later whether fUnarmoredBase2(and thus your mod) is the culprit of my problems

Well, I should have been more clear...

I have no doubt that my raised effectiveness of the unarmroed skill is contributing to your problem. However, I don't believe that it alone will cause naked guards to appear.

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:18 pm

Updated to 7.0.

Included my script that lets you keep the added health from fortify health spells and some info about the "naked people" problem in the main readme, plus some other stuff.

As always, if you're not getting the current version on PES (their servers have been taking forever to propagate lately, it seems), get it from my site at http://btb2.free.fr/files/morrowind_btb.zip

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:22 pm

Did you happen to use MWEdit to change Telvanni Guard stats (6.3) ? I wonder what happens if you just add robes to their inventory...

Thanks for the update

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:57 pm

I am indeed using MWEdit... I suppose I should have at least tries the CS to see if it had different results, but several weeks of working with MWEdit has made even looking at the CS physically painful to me at this point >.>

Adding robes could also work, I suppose. I guess what it really comes down to is that I think naked people are funny

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:37 pm

Hi BTB, a new convert signing in here - I decided to make a new character and am finally getting around to playing with your edits after having put it off for the last couple of years.

A few questions, though. First, the download link to your edited version of Area Effect Arrows doesn't work for me - I get a 404 error page in french instead. Also, is that compatible with the mod that adds particles to enchanted arrows? (I assume it's not, but I might be surprised)

Secondly, mlox is throwing up a couple of problems for me when I run my mod list through it. I suspect part of my problem might be that I'm running the wrong plugins, because I svck at following directions, but I'm hoping you can shed some light on it here:

[CONFLICT]
> 'AtmosphericSoundEffects-3.0.esp'
> 'Tribunal.esm'
| You should use AtmosphericSoundEffects-3.0-Tribunal.esp instead.
| (Ref: "readme_ase30.htm")

The ASE/Illuminated Windows mods I'm running are these:
ASE Bloodmoon Expansion
ASE Tribunal Expansion
AtmosphericSoundEffects-3.0
Illuminated Windows
Illuminated Windows-Bloodmoon

[CONFLICT]
> 'Illuminated Windows.esp'
> "Vality's Bitter Coast Addon.esp"
| These two plugins make an incompatible change to the same cell, and you may get the error: 'Object reference "flora_bc_fern_03" missing in master file.'. You can get around it by using the Construction Set or TESAME to edit one of plugins and remove the conflicting changes.
| (Ref: http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=866830&hl= )

I also get this, but the link they give has been eaten by the pagemonster and it did seem unlikely that those two would conflict, given your dedication to keeping your list conflict free. I actually noticed your edit of Vality's esp shortly after running it through mlox, and installed that one instead - so can I assume that whatever conflict there is is also fixed by your edit?

Hoping I haven't actually done anything monumentally stupid... but, well, you never know.

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:25 pm

A few questions, though. First, the download link to your edited version of Area Effect Arrows doesn't work for me - I get a 404 error page in french instead.

Oops. I forgot to update the download link.

This is the correct on: http://btb2.free.fr/files/morrowind_projectiles.zip

I'll fix it in a little bit.

Also, is that compatible with the mod that adds particles to enchanted arrows? (I assume it's not, but I might be surprised)

Actually, yeah, they should be compatible. All the Area Effect Arrows Does is add arros with new enchantments. Editing enchantment VFX is an entirely different function altogether.

[CONFLICT]
> 'AtmosphericSoundEffects-3.0.esp'
> 'Tribunal.esm'
| You should use AtmosphericSoundEffects-3.0-Tribunal.esp instead.
| (Ref: "readme_ase30.htm")

Mlox doesn't appear to be aware of the Tribunal and Bloodmoon addons to ASE from Illuminated Windows.

One of these days, I need to contribute my knowledge to the Mlox database. Thing is, my approach to conflict resolution is to adjust the dates of the files manually (or manually edit out the conflicting edits) rather than using yet another external utility to adjust my load order.

[CONFLICT]
> 'Illuminated Windows.esp'
> "Vality's Bitter Coast Addon.esp"
| These two plugins make an incompatible change to the same cell, and you may get the error: 'Object reference "flora_bc_fern_03" missing in master file.'. You can get around it by using the Construction Set or TESAME to edit one of plugins and remove the conflicting changes.

My edited version won't fix this, but it's not a conflict worth worrying about. All that will happen is that the most recent plugin (Vality's, I believe) will override the changes made by Illuminated Windows to whatever cell that the two of them edit.

And I think that might actually be a mistake, because I don't think that the two of them both actually edit the same cell... at least not according to TESPCD.

Hoping I haven't actually done anything monumentally stupid... but, well, you never know.

You haven't. Worry not.

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:16 pm

Good news on all counts then. Thanks, BTB.

Finally off to play after about 3 hours of tweaking, hurrah!

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:32 am

Enjoy. Maybe soon I'll actually get a chance to play the damn game, too.

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:30 pm

I am indeed using MWEdit... I suppose I should have at least tries the CS to see if it had different results, but several weeks of working with MWEdit has made even looking at the CS physically painful to me at this point >.>

Adding robes could also work, I suppose. I guess what it really comes down to is that I think naked people are funny

Me too. I just noticed that MWEdit sometimes does weird things. When I changed icons of the potions MWEdit removed all of the durations from invisibility potions, I don't know why and how, but all of the other durations have not been touched. Another time MWEdit has removed dialogs from edited NPCs, I guess it has happened because I did not load the ESMs with the dialogs together with the plugin. And the warnings that I got with the telvanni guards crash look like something similar to the dialog issue:

Spoiler

Following string is different for topic "someone in particular" info 2963712435680719868-"What do you mean you're looking for me? I don't know you, do I? You say you have a note from Ernil?"
Previous string is different for topic "someone in particular" info 646119943318678334-"Oh yeah, sure. Heard ya the f-f-first time."
Following string is different for topic "someone in particular" info 26077673137419609-"Almalexia, our Lady of Mercy, dwells in her Temple. Her steward, Fedris Hler, and the Lord Archcanon, Gavas Drin, also reside in the Temple. King Hlaalu Helseth and his mother, Queen Barenziah, live in the Royal Palace. Tienius Delitian is Captain of the Royal Guard. It's a big city. If there's someone else you want, ask around."
Previous string is different for topic "someone in particular" info 273938299215761706-"I mind my own business. Why don't you mind yours, outlander?"
Following string is different for topic "Boots of the Apostle" info 14011281241423210826-"The place-name reference in the Oracle's prophecy is obvious. An ancient Dunmer stronghold called Berandas lies south of the village of Gnisis in the West Gash region. I would also not be surprised to find that the reference to "wings of twilight" designates the guardians of the treasure you seek. Winged twilights are Daedric servants of the Daedra Lord Azura, one of the Anticipations worshiped in the Tribunal Temple."
Following string is different for topic "Dark Brotherhood" info 6845170651501226134-"We are still at war with the Dark Brotherhood. Do not forget that."
Previous string is different for topic "Dark Brotherhood" info 7790121922046710132-"Oh yeah, sure. Heard ya the f-f-first time."
Following string is different for topic "Dark Brotherhood" info 1153953981787613029-"Scum, all of them. If they're after you, friend, you'd better find yourself some help. Or write a will. Or both."
Previous string is different for topic "Dark Brotherhood" info 98651948238611929-"So Tsrazami was an agent of the Dark Brotherhood. Alas, she left Vvardenfell or is dead. Perhaps we can find another contact."
Following string is different for topic "travel together" info 1627714415913516768-"Habasi hears you broke our agreement. Habasi does not want to speak with you now."
Previous string is different for topic "travel together" info 10200169763196329114-"Really? Excellent! I mean...I wouldn't want to get in the way. You understand. I'll guard your back from here."
Following string is different for topic "travel together" info 2091021750732311715-"Do you want me to stay with you? I'd be willing to wait here. I m-mean, it's up to you."
Previous string is different for topic "travel together" info 3230111137262605603-"It was quite a journey, wasn't it?"
Following string is different for topic "specific place" info 749914731240121175-"Pelagiad is the next town up the road. Cross the bridge out of town and just stay on the road. From Pelagiad, take the road north to Balmora and Caldera, or east to Ebonheart and Vivec. If you have the cash, and are in a hurry, or afraid of getting lost, take the silt strider to Balmora or Vivec. Speak to Darvame Hleran at the silt strider landing, across the bridge and south along the shore. And if you plan to travel widely, get a copy of 'Guide to Vvardenfell' from Arrille. It's got maps."
Previous string is different for topic "specific place" info 1699211592376221704-"You're in the Plaza Brindisi Dorom now. North is the Royal Palace. To the northwest is Godsreach, to the northeast is the Great Bazaar. The Temple Courtyard is north of the Royal Palace, either through the Palace or from Godsreach or the Great Bazaar."
Following string is different for topic "specific place" info 11745292531195823123-"You're in Godsreach now. South is Plaza Brindisi Dorom. North is the Temple Courtyard and Almalexia's Temple. To the east are the Royal Palace and the Great Bazaar, but you can't get there from here -- go through the Temple or Plaza first."
Previous string is different for topic "specific place" info 6643274893123421616-"I'm not here to give you directions, outlander. Go ask your friends."
Following string is different for topic "Apelles Matius" info 2054126209125913879-"Who?"
Previous string is different for topic "Apelles Matius" info 105892696311744307-"I am he. What can I do for you?"
Following string is different for topic "little advice" info 2094220342252388225-"No one will ever grow rich hunting. But it is a pure pleasure for itself. Take your time. Sneak up on your prey. Surprise it with a swift, silent arrow. There is no greater pleasure than to drop a cliff racer with a single arrow."
Previous string is different for topic "little advice" info 5178505957589111-"Oh yeah, sure. Heard ya the f-f-first time."
Following string is different for topic "little advice" info 4800225642531726815-"If you're looking for some action, try poking around in the sewers, Be careful. Others with similar ideas also spend their spare time down there. But you look like you can take care of yourself."
Previous string is different for topic "little advice" info 157403399120459055-"Go around trouble. Leave it behind you. Then return, later, when you can give trouble a big surprise."
Following string is different for topic "little secret" info 1656921162306334539-"Smuggling raw glass is a crime. All raw glass belongs to the Emperor, so it's the crime of treason, and punished by death. But... there's so much money to be made selling black market raw glass that it's a rare merchant who'll refuse to buy a piece from you. Of course, if the mine guards catch you stealing raw glass, they just kill you. Which is why we don't steal raw glass."
Previous string is different for topic "little secret" info 25693272922242731603-"Oh yeah, sure. Heard ya the f-f-first time."
Following string is different for topic "little secret" info 251731914716407914-"I've heard that a fellow named Dovor Oren has deep pockets. He is looking for weapons and armor -- special items -- and he pays well. I can't tell you where to find him. Just keep your eyes out for him and his associates."
Previous string is different for topic "little secret" info 3059715983399729955-"Smuggling raw glass is a crime. All raw glass belongs to the Emperor, so it's the crime of treason, and punished by death. But... there's so much money to be made selling black market raw glass that it's a rare merchant who'll refuse to buy a piece from you. Of course, if the mine guards catch you stealing raw glass, they just kill you. Which is why we don't steal raw glass."
Following string is different for topic "latest rumors" info 16325102782849326701-"The skies are clear all over Morrowind? Even on Red Mountain? I cannot believe it."
Previous string is different for topic "latest rumors" info 128279104427445-"Oh yeah, sure. Heard ya the f-f-first time."
Following string is different for topic "latest rumors" info 735826820143959524-"The wild rats have been a real problem in Mournhold lately."
Previous string is different for topic "latest rumors" info 2606929671165928504-"So. You are Nerevarine. When will you go to Red Mountain to face the Devil Dagoth Ur?"
Previous string is different for topic "Greeting 0" info 2820158182898026047-"Squeak!"
Following string is different for topic "Greeting 0" info 12105171323147159-"You've committed a crime, vampire. Were you not an abomination, I might let you live. Prepare to die!"
Following string is different for topic "Greeting 1" info 1588813549227325295-"All is silence. The road is straight, without turning, in darkness. Now let there be an end to all things."
Previous string is different for topic "Greeting 1" info 19137490125553988-"Ah, %PCName. Friend of the Temple, and healer of Mournhold. What can I do for you?"
Following string is different for topic "Greeting 1" info 2736297202775214789-"No...tell my liege...I have...failed h...."
Previous string is different for topic "Greeting 1" info 2720923242218723111-"Look, I don't know what's going on in this place. Monsters bursting up from the ground, guards running around everywhere...this is lunacy. You'll notice I'm not blaming this on any witch. And it's still too hot around here."
Following string is different for topic "Greeting 1" info 2541048941629420333-"I can't believe these ashstorms! I've heard of them on the island, but not here in Mournhold! Why does this keep happening?"
Previous string is different for topic "Greeting 1" info 14849203321598615886-"Well. Someone finally found me. Your bad luck, really."
Following string is different for topic "Greeting 1" info 190592792723126084-"What are you doing here? Those bastards kicked me out of the Legion...and for what? Idiots, all of them. I'm surprised the fools even knew it was gone. But it's mine now. And that's how it will stay. And you will tell no one!"
Following string is different for topic "Greeting 5" info 21101133601380211667-"Report on the land deed."
Following string is different for topic "Nerevarine" info 31868303082881712450-"Nerevarine? Is that a new play? I like plays."
Previous string is different for topic "Nerevarine" info 19742144401495913234-"Wha?"
Following string is different for topic "Nerevarine" info 18643190142627330170-"I know a little about the prophecies. I know about you and the Temple. Some people in the West set great store in signs and portents, but for thousands of years we Dunmer have had the luxury of being able to speak directly to our gods. We have no need of prophets, and distrust anyone who claims to speak for the gods."
Previous string is different for topic "Nerevarine" info 2121218601181417485-"You were right, %PCName. I am not much of a hero, but I can only try to do my duty to the tribe. And now that the Devil is dead, and the Blight is gone, perhaps there will be time enough and peace enough for me to learn what I must learn to be a leader... like my father."
Following string is different for topic "Almalexia" info 2340447542946020638-"Almalexia is Healing Mother, the source of compassion and sympathy, and protector of the poor and weak."
Previous string is different for topic "Almalexia" info 253227646864125858-"The goddess over in the Temple. She's surrounded by her Hands. Tough fighters from what I hear."
Following string is different for topic "Almalexia" info 1629530673227419863-"Almalexia is one of the gods worshipped by the Dunmer in the Tribunal Temple."
Previous string is different for topic "Almalexia" info 1766720843232323511-"Almalexia is Healing Mother, the source of compassion and sympathy, and protector of the poor and weak."
Following string is different for topic "Services" info 9706194263037723833-"I sell potions and spells, charms and marvels. And I can teach some of what I know, if you can pay."
Previous string is different for topic "Services" info 30825219281734727358-"Oh yeah, sure. Heard ya the f-f-first time."
Following string is different for topic "Services" info 25770154614365306-"You'll find the smith Bols Indalen at Craftmen's Hall in Godsreach, along with several other fine craftsmen. There's a healer and an Imperial altar in the Royal Palace. Go to the Temple for Temple services. Otherwise, most trainers, crafters, and merchants are in the Great Bazaar."
Previous string is different for topic "Services" info 1814954861644214188-"We have our own Blades Trainers, of course. And there're many public services available in Balmora. Members get better prices from Guild Services. The Balmora Fighters Guild and Balmora Mages Guild are across the river. You'll find contacts for the Balmora Thieves Guild in the South Wall up the street. And there's an Imperial Cult shrine at nearby Moonmoth Legion Fort."
Following string is different for topic "Attack" info 487276111250324150-"Arrgh!"
Previous string is different for topic "Attack" info 321254531168523746-"(null)"
Following string is different for topic "Attack" info 321254531168523746-"(null)"
Previous string is different for topic "Attack" info 13500177932814824645-"Rarrh!"
Following string is different for topic "Hello" info 1097260391359021977-"(null)"
Previous string is different for topic "Hello" info 291042261518712192-"(null)"
Following string is different for topic "Hello" info 32671263572417426268-"If you insist..."
Previous string is different for topic "Hello" info 29416250231050910157-"(null)"
Following string is different for topic "Idle" info 2753017911425526969-"Now... if I could just figure a scheme of classifying manifolds for TRI-PLY-connected surfaces... or even MORE complex surfaces..."
Previous string is different for topic "Idle" info 16462055017136588-"(null)"
Following string is different for topic "Idle" info 548912703529910651-"He should be here by now..."
Previous string is different for topic "Idle" info 2839423402756528244-"(null)"
Following string is different for topic "Beds" info 1594025613149529658-"Very well. Go down the stairs, and use the first room on your right. It's yours for the next day."
Previous string is different for topic "Beds" info 2467420241504626206-"Very well, the bed is yours for the day. You'll find the room on the bottom floor, at the North end of the bar."
Following string is different for topic "Beds" info 2467420241504626206-"Very well, the bed is yours for the day. You'll find the room on the bottom floor, at the North end of the bar."
Previous string is different for topic "Beds" info 21432111501574114700-"It's all yours for the day. Down the stairs to the right."
Following string is different for topic "Hit" info 299702217312473358-"Unngh!"
Previous string is different for topic "Hit" info 1352870573219920531-"(null)"
Following string is different for topic "Hit" info 1352870573219920531-"(null)"
Previous string is different for topic "Hit" info 15912223092960525234-"Raragh!"
Duplicate "teleport_enabler" (3875,3956,13945) in cell Dagoth Ur, Facility Cavern from file Bloodmoon.esm removed.
1 duplicate references were removed.

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:49 am

That reminds me of the error messages that usually load along with the Construction Set if you open a mod that uses Tribunal/Bloodmoon.

On another note, the poll results continue to surprise me. I never imagined that the "Spells" plugin would be the most popular one... or that more than two people would use the normal Settings plugin.

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:09 am

I like the normal settings because I also liked to play Wrye's Must Train (Oblivion). Together with higher training costs it greatly cuts down the Jack-of-all-trades character development plus you can spend spare money for training skills. GCD removes the 100 level cap, but now the misc. skills are capped at 100 again.
I am not sure about the value of self-made potions though. Maybe I tend to sell ingredients instead of potions then. Also if Alchemy is a major/minor skill I would create a lot of potions that have to be scrapped - I could never use all of the "training" potions for myself. But, let's see. For the current mage build I have put Alchemy into the misc. skills to prevent that.

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:06 pm

I could never use all of the "training" potions for myself.

I thought the same thing, until I realized that the idea, then, is just to stop making potions with no positive effects, and then just start using the ones with positive effects more often.

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:21 pm

BTB, Will I be able to merge these plugins, or do they need to remain separate?

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:13 pm

BTB, Will I be able to merge these plugins, or do they need to remain separate?

You can merge them if you need to.

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:18 pm

http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=8713 will alter most of the games armor, will merging objects suffice in retaining the changes from your game changes and this??

» Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:58 pm

http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=8713 will alter most of the games armor, will merging objects suffice in retaining the changes from your game changes and this??

Merged Objects should be sufficient, yes.