Yes, that is the problem I spoke of. Does the new plugin fix the problem?

(You may need to rest for it to work, clean your game with Wyre Mash, go back to a save before the problem happened, or any combination thereof).

By Jove, that's done it! Round of applause.

Will the changes be rollled up into the next release of BTBGI, or will i be forever begging at your door for a customer ESP?

They'll be in the next release. As always, I just have a few more things that need to go into it before I release it.

Here's a tentative changelist:

Version 7.1 (January ?, 2011)

"CHARACTER" PLUGIN:

? Fixed problem with the Level-Up Birthsign Remover script caused by an error in my cleanup from a previous update where birthsigns were being removed, but not added back.

"ALCHEMY" PLUGIN:

? Added edits to the values of all Master's and Grandmaster's alchemy equipment.

? Added edits to the qualities of all Master's and Grandmaster's alchemy equipment.

"EQUIPMENT" PLUGIN:

? Lowered Daedric Shortsword value from 2,000 to 1,500.
? Lowered Daedric Spear value from 2,000 to 1,500.
? Lowered Daedric Mace value from 2,500 to 1,500.
? Lowered Daedric War Axe value from 2,500 to 1,500.
? Lowered Daedric Warhammer value from 2,500 to 1,500.
? Lowered Daedric Longsword value from 2,500 to 1,500.
? Lowered Daedric Wakizashi value from 5,000 to 2,000.
? Lowered Daedric Long Bow value from 5,000 to 2,000.
? Lowered Daedric Katana value from 5,000 to 2,000.
? Lowered Daedric Battle Axe value from 5,000 to 2,000.
? Lowered Daedric Claymore value from 7,500 to 2,500.
? Lowered Daedric Dai-katana value from 7,500 to 2,500.

? Lowered Daedric Gauntlet value from 2,500 to 1,000.
? Lowered Daedric Fountain Helm value from 3,000 to 1,000.
? Lowered Daedric Terror Helm value from 4,000 to 1,500.
? Lowered Daedric God Helm value from 5,000 to 2,000.
? Lowered Daedric Boots value from 5,000 to 2,000.
? Lowered Daedric Pauldron value from 5,000 to 2,000.
? Lowered Daedric Shield value from 5,000 to 2,000.
? Lowered Daedric Greaves value from 5,000 to 2,000.
? Lowered Daedric Tower Shield value from 7,500 to 2,500.
? Lowered Daedric Cuirass value from 7,500 to 2,500.

(More to come here later... including possibly lowering the damage of Daedric equipment)

"SETTINGS" PLUGIN:

? Added edit to the duration of torches and other light items

? Added edit to Alchemy-related GMSTs (possibly)

? Removed edit to experience gain to mercantile skill per successful bargain.

? Fixed problem with the restocking filled soul gem scripts caused by an error in my cleanup from a previous update where bad syntax was causing errors for some users.

You may be right, but from my testing I noticed that that bug appeared only with a feww creatures. I didn't really triy with ALL creatures ( or NPCs) but I supposed that it could happen with any of them. Strangely (or fortunately) Dremoras and Golden Saints died always with 0 hp. However I may be wrong and I didn't test it enough. You should make some tests about that. The HF's method is definitely better than taking the stuff back from the hands ogf the player.


Wrong. I don't know about the MPP scripts, but the blueScript is not a local script attached to the object. It'sa global script started by a dialogue.

Well, it will be my fallback if I can;t figure out any other way.



Er... good point, The MPP is what removes it as a global script and attaches it to Goldbrand.

So, in both cases, they're MPP scripts. And they seem to work fine. Though I guess it does explain why it is that the game will crash if you buy more than one at a time (problem is solved by only allowing the player to buy one at a time).

Anyways, came up with some new alchemy equipment values:

Apprentice's Retort 75 (instead of 20)
Apprentice's Calcinator 25 (instead of 10)

Journeyman's M&P 500 (instead of 400)
Journeyman's Retort 400 (instead of 80)
Journeyman's Alembic 300 (instead of 200)
Journeyman's Calcinator 200 (instead of 40)

EDIT: lowered the master's equipment values just a smidge

Master's M&P 2,500 (instead of 2400)
Master's Retort 2,000 (instead of 480)
Master's Alembic 1,500 (instead of 1200)
Master's Calcinator 1,000 (instead of 240)

GM's M&P 15,000 (instead of 4000)
GM's Retort 12,500 (instead of 1600)
GM's Alembic 10,000 (instead of 4000)
GM's Calcinator 7,500 (instead of 4000)

Just checked it out. Yeah the MPP attched the blueScript to the Goldbrand, but if you notice that script doesn't remove anything, but starts blueScript2 (global) that does it. I dind't check your script yet, but if you want the player to have only one soulgem and you remove them if there are more than one, yes, you get a CTD. But the game should crash even if you remove any soulgem with that script attached (I mean even if there's only one soulgem in the inventory).

EDIT: in conclusion, to remove those soulgems you need to use a global script to make all work properly.

Hi , could you also add support in your next issue for Assassin Armoury and the Area Affect Arrow. There are a lot of Area Affect Arrow esp plugins.
We need just one, that will work with the lot.
Also could you look into the NOM compatibility esp .To see if your BTB esp edits are truly supported:
eg: MLOX output

[CONFLICT]
> 'DN-GDRv1.esp'
> 'DN-GDRv1_NOM.esp'
| If you use NOM (Necessities of Morrowind), then use DN-GDRv1_NOM.esp, otherwise, use DN-GDRv1.esp.
| (Ref: DNGDRv1.zip/"readme.htm")
[PATCH]
!!'DN-GDRv1_NOM.esp' is missing some pre-requisites:
[ALL 'GDR_MasterFile.esm', 'MISSING(NOM 2.13.esp)']
| !! If you use NOM (Necessities of Morrowind), then use DN-GDRv1_NOM.esp

Your edit DN-GDRv1 (HFP Edit).esp is not recognized.

Other than that. , TRAPS , this really needs work.
Using the latest MCP , but NOT the hide traps message. This message "trap" should only appear if you have the Security skill high to be able to detect it. Security is the ability to disarm traps and it should be made to work. Damage should not always be death.
Anyhow I sure you know all about the traps, and locks stuff.
The Birthsign , have not check out the fix yet , but we all know that the bug will be fixed , so cheers in advance.
The main reason I support your work , is because of your quick response to bug issue. That leaves Players with a warm fussy feeling knowing that their save games, don't just lie around waiting for a fix.

So I do encourage you to tried and dominated this niche you have with BTB , so a 2011/20 Morrowind standard , of game play could be set.
I really don't have the tech knowledge to be able to understand what BTB is doing , but I do understand that it make the game better to play.
So keep up the good work.

I suppose there's no harm in it. I'll change it up, then.

On another note, just added some edits to the Alchemy GMSTs in the "Settings" plugin to reduce duration and magnitude (the former more strongly). If anyone wants to give them a whirl and let me know how you think they fit in, balance-wise along with the value edits mentioned above (I'm looking at you, mym >.>), here's the download:

http://btb2.free.fr/temp/settings_alchemy.zip

For the curious, these are the new settings:

fPotionStrengthMult 0.1 (instead of 0.5)
fPotionT1MagMult 0.5 (instead of 1.5)
fPotionT1DurMult 0.25 (instead of 0.5)

EDIT: I've also been thinking about how paralyze doesn't show up very much. I will probably lower the effect cost a bit in the "Spells" plugin, but what I really think would help balance more than anything is to lower the quality of all Alembics. I'm just concerned that it might institute balance problems for the other negative effects.

EDIT 2: And here we go: http://btb2.free.fr/temp/alchemy_alembic.zip

These are the new Alembic qualities:

Apprentice's Alembic 0.25 (instead of 0.50)
Journeyman's Alembic 0.50 (instead of 1.00)
Master's Alembic 0.75 (instead of 1.20)
GM's Alembic 1.00 (instead of 1.50)

Let me know what you think... particularly about how it affects paralyze.

Heya, just FYI I will be making potion weight dependent on alembic quality in the next MCP, so don't get all crazy with that quality measure. Did you get my PM as well?

no just tried it , soon as I slept the birthsign ability/icon disappears .

Yeah, I saw that... hopefully, these changes won't be too bad (though I've yet to compare then to the charts in your thread).

I got the PM and installed the new patch... will give it a try tomorrow when I might actually have time alone with the game.



Well, [censored].

*Back to the drawing board*

EDIT: I'm a Goddamned idiot >.<

The astute observer may have noticed at this point that I am still * very* new to scripting, and have learned pretty much everything i know through a combination of watching you guys do it and trial and error (mostly error). And the reason I could never seem to get timers to work the way I wanted them to is because, well, I apparently don't know how to use them correctly.

But, having realized that, I gained a level in scripting, rested to reflect on what I learned, and saw that my new script now actually works as intended. Furthermore, it's now actually an improvement over the old script, since the timer only starts if your birthsign is missing (which is what I was trying to do all along, yet failed spectacularly).

So, yeah...

http://btb2.free.fr/temp/character_that_actually_works.zip

My apologies for my idiocy >.<

No worries mate , so fast are your fixes it's not even a problem.

Using my grand master mortar and pestle and my other master tools, and ~80 INT, the new duration and magnitude settings seem to produce better values for most effects I have tested.
By better values, I mean more useful, less abuses, and closer to exclusive merchant potions (I compare to exclusive ones as I guess I should be considered as a master in alchemy).

Nevertheless, some effects that were already weak are now weaker in magnitude like reflect (8% << 20% of the exclusive potion) and sanctuary (8pts), or in duration like invisibility (4s << 60s of the exclusive one), water breathing (14s) and levitate (19s << 60s). Not sure it is a big deal though as hand-made potions doesn't have to offer the same advantages/downside than merchant ones.


I think the alembic works just fine for most effects so its effectiveness shouldn't be reduced for only a few useless effects like paralyze.
And as Hrnchamd says, the weight of potions in MCP are now based on that tool quality, so it shouldn't be altered.
All tools use the same quality values, so it would be safe to keep it that way for compatibility reasons.

Maybe you could replace the paralyze effect of such potions by a poison damage, drain health or drain magicka instead.

Trying to make a final decision on if I want to use your edited Dark Brotherhood Armor Replacer Expanded. Consider these questions non-pressing as you obviously have a lot on your plate atm.

Was curious if you had considered this expansion to DBARE: http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=3902 It incorporates the colors by DB ranks.

Also, wondered if you know which version of Delayed DB Attack is included with DBARE and what exactly are the trigger points for the attacks to kick in. I went to http://www.mwmythicmods.com/Gluby/Gluby_DarkBrotherhood_Mods.htm hoping the answer was there but he/she wasn't sure either, based off the description. Turn's out there are at least four versions of Delayed DB Attack and which, if any of them, is the one included in DBARE is a mystery. Kinda gives me an involuntary tic in my eye trying to keep them straight.

Very well! I will try that soon. However let me suggest you to read the scripting bible, Morrowind Scripting for Dummies. You will gain a lot of levels following it! And one more little thing, never begin a script name with an underscore, it may lead to issues. Since that is only one script, it should not create many problems, but it's a mistake any way.

Hmm...

I'm honestly not sure how I feel about that yet. Thinking about this too hard turns my brain into a big mess, and that's what's happened at the moment. I need to take a few steps back, regroup, and approach the problem again from a fresh angle.

I'll probably start off a new game and see how a couple of these effects work to the starting player (I'm particularly interested in effects like water breathing/walking, that a newbie should actually be able to use at least somewhat effectively). I will then compare to your values and see what I come up with.

Something that occurred to me is that, either way, I'm looking to make some effects easier to work with earlier on, and others harder. For example, you like DarkSCR's alchemy mod on the basis that it should take more skill to use better equipment, but what if instead took better skill to use better *effects* in potions? Makes a bit more sense to me, anyways.



Compatibility? I can't see how that would be a problem.

And I tried not to go too insane with the edits... but I may have to have a look at how they behave in-game to say for sure. I dunno. I haven't had my coffee yet.

EDIT: Okay, now I have had my coffee, and here's what's going through my head at the moment. The problem I'm faced with is that what I'm really trying to reel in more than anything are the badass potions that you can make with Master/Grandmaster equipment, and what ends up suffering as a result are early-game potions made with Apprentice/Journeyman equipment. I think that apparati qualities across the board may need to be lowered in order to close that gap some, thus giving me more room to play with. I'll try not to go overboard, but I'm thinking of kicking grandmaster equipment down to 1.20 (where master equipment is now), master equipment down to 1.00 (where journeyman is now), and journeyman down to fill in the rather large gap between itself and apprentice's equipment. Hell, I may even raise Journeyman's equipment up some to give us a nice, even 0.60/0.80/1.00/1.20 spread. This reduces the overall range by a total of 0.40 points, which is significant. From there, I can decide if I want to give Alembics and/or Calcinators different values from the rest of the tier group, or if I want to run them separately.

I'm not *too* concerned with running into problems with Hrnch's patch, since a little extra potion weight would only help to discourage "stacking". Honestly, at this point, I almost don't want stacking to be fixed, if only because it would mean I'd have to go back and re-do, like, half my mod >.>

I sense a long day ahead of toying with different values to see what I get.



Poison seems to be falling into the same boat, almost. My experience in-game shows that the poison effect of a potion I make early on is negligible at best.

I wonder if there's a GMST that controls the effectiveness of negative potion effects only.



From left to right: Smoke, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Ermac, Ermac's long-lost brother, Noob Saibot

But yeah, seriously... I like that. Makes more sense than everyone wearing the exact same outfit.



I do not.

Thank you very much for this mod :foodndrink: , it looks great.

So, if I want to have no problems with GCD I should use the alternate BTB Settings esp, right? I am just making sure. Or should I use both if I want a harder game, and just remove the GCD settings harder esp and I would get a similar effect?

If you're using GCD, you'll probably want to go with the "Alternate" Settings plugin, yes.

Good idea. Almost all my tests have been done as a "master in alchemy", but we should think about the beginner.
For example I know that hand-made restore healing potions are not useful early in the game ( ~1pt for 2s :-/ ).
However, a 2-4s paralyze effect could be bothering enough, more than a burden effect.


We don't have to make a choice: I think a player needs both better skills and better tools to create better potions.
It's just too bad if every player can get the best alchemy tools early in the game.

Compared to weapons and armors, thanks to leveled lists the player won't be able to acquire daedric items until level 16-18 of their PC.
But for the alchemy set it's only a matter of gold.
Unfortunately, there are some ways around, like fulfilling the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Mysterious_Killings_in_Vivec easy quest to get the best medium armor helmet and cuirass of the game.


Yes, and particularly for low level PCs for whom creating potions often fails, doesn't produce great positive effects and for a short duration. So if the negative effects are too strong, it may make potion brewing useless for beginners.

Thank you for the quick reply. Also I want to ask, what esp's from the economy adjuster mod should I use together with BTB's Game Improvements? Because you mention in your mods guide that you have made your own version of the Merchant Skills plugin. Is it included in BTB's Game Improvements?

I use the Merchant Skills and Crime plugins.

The only modules of Economy Adjuster that my mod is meant to replace are the Misc and Ingredients plugins.

I don't wish to be too bothersome, but I'm wondering if I could have some clarification, since I'm no mod expert. How does putting the GCD and original Settings mod make the game harder (or at least harder than you had intended)? I know that GCD slows down skill progress at a certain level (major skills slow down in high 90s for example), but does combining the two mods cause the skill progression to become significantly harder before reaching that point. Note that I don't care about what effect it has on misc skills, since I never use them anyway.

Quoth the Galsiah: "Slowdown + Slowdown = Lots of slowdown"

My mod not only stops the growth of misc skills, but it also slows down the growth of major/minor ones. I don't know enough about how Galsiah's mod is scripted to tell you exactly *how* the slowdown works in his (hers?), but I have heard reports of people who use both mods together. It's really a matter of personal preference.

Anyways, moving along... I'm having a look at alchemy at the moment. Here's what I've come up with:

APPARATI VALUES:

Apprentice's Retort 75 (instead of 20)
Apprentice's Calcinator 25 (instead of 10)

Journeyman's M&P 500 (instead of 400)
Journeyman's Retort 400 (instead of 80)
Journeyman's Alembic 300 (instead of 200)
Journeyman's Calcinator 200 (instead of 40)

Master's M&P 2,500 (instead of 2400)
Master's Retort 2,000 (instead of 480)
Master's Alembic 1,500 (instead of 1200)
Master's Calcinator 1,000 (instead of 240)

GM's M&P 15,000 (instead of 4000)
GM's Retort 12,500 (instead of 1600)
GM's Alembic 10,000 (instead of 4000)
GM's Calcinator 7,500 (instead of 4000)

APPARATI QUALITIES:

Journeyman's M&P 0.75 (instead of 1.00)
Master's M&P 1.00 (instead of 1.20)
GM's M&P 1.25 (instead of 1.50)

Apprentice's Retort 0.25 (instead of 0.50)
Journeyman's Retort 0.50 (instead of 1.00)
Master's Retort 0.75 (instead of 1.20)
GM's Retort 1.00 (instead of 1.50)

Journeyman's Calcinator 0.75 (instead of 1.00)
Master's Calcinator 1.00 (instead of 1.20)
GM's Calcinator 1.25 (instead of 1.50)

Apprentice's Alembic 0.25 (instead of 0.50)
Journeyman's Alembic 0.50 (instead of 1.00)
Master's Alembic 0.75 (instead of 1.20)
GM's Alembic 1.00 (instead of 1.50)

Now, I'll probably head over to the Settings plugin and ease up a bit on the GMST edits. This should give me ultimate results with higher-end equipment similar to what mym was reporting earlier, but with better results from crappier equipment.

EDIT: Also, just for flavor, I've kicked up the effectiveness of Skooma Pipes from 0.15 to 0.25, lowered their values, and changed them from retorts to calcinators. Their quality is lower, but they weigh over 20 pounds less than the next step up.

If you join this Census and Excise Office here http://www.fliggerty.com/phpBB3/cne/cne_main.php.



1) Benefits, sharing debugging & mod list load order information , To be able to update position of character from the game to the site, so other player can see via the map where a potential bug is.
This process could them be use to update bugs on the map (wilki) as additional information marker, like bugs, coming work and potential conflicts between mods.

2) Your mods that you are currently running a the time of the update can be view by others. eg http://www.fliggerty.com/phpBB3/cne/cne_viewmodlist.php?id=1623 Viewing your current mod list and the load order, would allow BTB to share, a current set up too others like MCP so they can run the same problem.

I think all active modellers should join Census and Excise Office and allows other players to see where a modeller is working in game.

I'm... not quite sure what you mean by that?

On another note, just had a look at the Daedric weapons damage. This was a *lot* more fun to do, since I had a lot more freedom with my settings, and I could play around a bit. Here's what I ended up with:

Daedric Club C:10-30 (instead of 10-12)
S:10-25 (instead of 4-8)
T:10-20 (instead of 4-8)

Daedric Staff C:5-20 (instead of 2-16)
S:5-20 (instead of 3-16)
T:10-15 (instead of 1-12)

Daedric Tanto C:1-15 (instead of 9-20)
S:1-15 (instead of 9-20)
T:1-20 (instead of 9-20)

Daedric Shortsword C:10-20 (instead of 10-26)
S:10-20 (instead of 10-26)
T:10-25 (instead of 12-24)

Daedric Mace C:10-30 (instead of 3-30)
S:10-25 (instead of 3-30)
T:10-20 (instead of 2-4)

Daedric War Axe C:1-40 (instead of 1-44)
S:1-30 (instead of 1-24)
T:1-20 (instead of 1-6)

Daedric Warhammer C:1-50 (instead of 1-70)
S:1-40 (instead of 1-60)
T:1-30 (instead of 1-4)

Daedric Longsword C:1-30 (instead of 2-32)
S:1-40 (instead of 1-44)
T:1-35 (instead of 4-40)

*Daedric Wakizashi C:15-25 (instead of 10-30)
S:15-20 (instead of 10-25)
T:10-20 (instead of 7-11)

Daedric Long Bow C:1-40 (instead of 2-50)

Daedric Katana C:5-35 (instead of 3-44)
S:5-35 (instead of 1-40)
T:5-35 (instead of 1-14)

Daedric Battle Axe C:1-60 (instead of 1-80)
S:1-40 (instead of 1-60)
T:1-20 (instead of 1-8)

Daedric Claymore C:1-50 (instead of 1-60)
S:1-45 (instead of 1-52)
T:1-40 (instead of 1-36)

Daedric Dai-katana C:15-45 (instead of 1-60)
S:15-45 (instead of 1-52)
T:15-45 (instead of 1-30)