Bug with the Great Khans : Fallout: New Vegas

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:48 pm

If this is the wrong section for this then I apologize in advance.

Spoiler

Recently, I have begun attempting the quest For the Republic, Part 2. Colonel Moore wants me to deal with the Great Khans. The only issue is that the quest instantly completes not matter what. NPCs seem to talk to me as if I had driven the Great Khans out of the Mojave because the quest instantly says that I've dealt with the Great Khans. This glitch started before the quest because I noticed it with NPC dialogue. I believe this issue started when I went to tell Yes Man that the Boomers would help me. At this point I have barely done anything at all for the Great Khans so up until this point my only option was to ignore the Great Khans (now I can tell Yes Man that I drove them away, which I didn't since they are still there).

I really don't want to use console commands since I like to get achievements so any help would be appreciated (i.e. can I still complete the quest as intended some how?) If anyone has any experience whatsoever with this bug then I'd be glad for the help. I also don't have any saves from that far back before things got messed up.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:04 pm

Using the console won't permanently disable achievements - all you have to do is exit the game (to the desktop) and restart, and you should be fine. I've used the console myself on several occasions to fix broken quests, and had no trouble with achievements.

The simplest way really would be to just use the console to reset the broken/bugged quest and then trying to solve it again (after exiting the game and restarting, just to make sure you don't miss out on any achievements).

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:15 am

Using the console won't permanently disable achievements - all you have to do is exit the game (to the desktop) and restart, and you should be fine. I've used the console myself on several occasions to fix broken quests, and had no trouble with achievements.

The simplest way really would be to just use the console to reset the broken/bugged quest and then trying to solve it again (after exiting the game and restarting, just to make sure you don't miss out on any achievements).

Well this is pretty good to know. One question is that if I accidentally hit ` will that disable achievements? Or if I accidentally hit ` and then press like tab a couple times by accident does that disable achievements?
Also, how would I go about figuring out which console commands I need so that the

Spoiler

Great Khans aren't considered dead?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:56 am

Well this is pretty good to know. One question is that if I accidentally hit ` will that disable achievements? Or if I accidentally hit ` and then press like tab a couple times by accident does that disable achievements?
Also, how would I go about figuring out which console commands I need so that the

Spoiler

Great Khans aren't considered dead?

One last bump.

I seem to be experiencing this problem in some form: (from Fallout Wiki)

Spoiler

"Having already been to Red Rock Canyon and dealing with the Great Khans, in speech with Moore you can say that the Great Khans won't be a problem anymore. Even after saying this, it doesnt register, so you have to say it again, then the same thing happens with the Omertas part of the quest (if you have already dealt with them), leading onto More wanting you to kill Mr House. Travelling to New Vegas Strip North Gate, then attempting to enter The Strip, the game freezes. This has happened multiple times, causing the games autosave feature to become corrupt."

One thing though is that I think I dodged a bullet since

Spoiler

I'm not getting locked out of the Strip when I zone in to deal with Mr. Hosue (I have dealt with the Omertas before so thats not a bug and working as intended, just the Great Khans).

I have avoided most of the described glitch but I was wondering what console commands I can use so that I can still deal with the Great Khans as inteded?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:41 am

Unsealing a locked door inside a house allowed me to speak with Papa Khan, and later assassinate him allowing the NCR favoring Leiutennant to take his place.
I then spoke with that lieutennant and had him take over.

I saw the same bug last night and assumed it was an optional quest with no quest markers.
Then I went back to the NCR Questgiver with the Great Khans on NCR's side and the quest was successful.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:42 am

Well this is pretty good to know. One question is that if I accidentally hit ` will that disable achievements? Or if I accidentally hit ` and then press like tab a couple times by accident does that disable achievements?
Also, how would I go about figuring out which console commands I need so that the

Spoiler

Great Khans aren't considered dead?

Unfortunately, it will disable achievements even if you accidentally hit the tilde key. I found this out the hard way during my first playthrough and missed out on at least one achievement - including the one for recruiting your first companion which I actually had to create a new character to get (since for some reason recruiting other companions after the first one didn't trigger it). It also doesn't help that the tilde key is right next to the tab key, which we'll all be pressing quite often since it opens/closes the pipboy. As far as I know, simply opening the console will disable achievements, even if you don't type anything into it - so be careful.

As for which commands to use - I'd start out by resetting the Great Khans main quest - "Oh My Papa" (using the resetquest command). Assuming that the characters you have to interact with are all still alive - and if you haven't already completed that section of the main quest lines by telling Moore/Yes Man that the Khans are dead - then you should be able to do it again and get a proper ending. You may have to use extra console commands to resummon Melissa though if you've already interacted with her, since she tends to disappear at some point during the normal progress of the game.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:15 am

Unfortunately, it will disable achievements even if you accidentally hit the tilde key. I found this out the hard way during my first playthrough and missed out on at least one achievement - including the one for recruiting your first companion which I actually had to create a new character to get (since for some reason recruiting other companions after the first one didn't trigger it). It also doesn't help that the tilde key is right next to the tab key, which we'll all be pressing quite often since it opens/closes the pipboy. As far as I know, simply opening the console will disable achievements, even if you don't type anything into it - so be careful.

As for which commands to use - I'd start out by resetting the Great Khans main quest - "Oh My Papa" (using the resetquest command). Assuming that the characters you have to interact with are all still alive - and if you haven't already completed that section of the main quest lines by telling Moore/Yes Man that the Khans are dead - then you should be able to do it again and get a proper ending. You may have to use extra console commands to resummon Melissa though if you've already interacted with her, since she tends to disappear at some point during the normal progress of the game.

Thanks for clearing that up. I haven't even talked to Melissa at all yet. And the only part of Oh My Papa that I did was use speech to get the Caesar advisor to leave. I also convinced the Chem lab people (with speech) to back me up when the time comes. (I am in the progress of finding their drug runner and teaching recipes to them). I also haven't told anyone yet (Yes Man or Moore) that the Great Khans are dead. After I reset the quest ("Oh My Papa") how should I proceed? Should I do Moore's quest first?

Also thanks for explaining the console mechanics. I don't think it's messed anything up so far but I'm wondering if it's possible to disable it?

Thanks again!

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:52 am

Resetting the quest "Oh My Papa" didn't seem to fix the issue with Colonel Moore/ "For the Republic, Part 2" and accepting the quest still automatically jumped to the Khans being destroyed. I really don't want to assassinate Papa Khan so I was wondering what I should do next. I thought about resetting "For the Republic, Part 2" but I really don't think that would help since I noticed the issue with the Great Khans long before doing the quest (after convincing the Boomers to help me). I think I will try to use the console to set the quest to the right stage but I was wondering if anyone else had suggestions.

EDIT: setting the stage of "For the Republic, Part 2" back to 1 did make the log say that I need to enlist/destroy the Khans but then it jumped back to it's previous state of saying that the Khans were destroyed. This doesn't really make sense because investigating the variables for "Oh My Papa" showed the "NumKhansKilled" (or something to that effect) was 0 (which you would think would be part of the issue). I tried resetting "For the Republic, Part 2" and "Oh My Papa" but this didn't help (and it just broke the game since I wasn't able to get the quests back). I'm not sure what could be causing the issue and appreciate the help.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:47 am

Resetting the quest "Oh My Papa" didn't seem to fix the issue with Colonel Moore/ "For the Republic, Part 2" and accepting the quest still automatically jumped to the Khans being destroyed. I really don't want to assassinate Papa Khan so I was wondering what I should do next. I thought about resetting "For the Republic, Part 2" but I really don't think that would help since I noticed the issue with the Great Khans long before doing the quest (after convincing the Boomers to help me). I think I will try to use the console to set the quest to the right stage but I was wondering if anyone else had suggestions.

EDIT: setting the stage of "For the Republic, Part 2" back to 1 did make the log say that I need to enlist/destroy the Khans but then it jumped back to it's previous state of saying that the Khans were destroyed. This doesn't really make sense because investigating the variables for "Oh My Papa" showed the "NumKhansKilled" (or something to that effect) was 0 (which you would think would be part of the issue). I tried resetting "For the Republic, Part 2" and "Oh My Papa" but this didn't help (and it just broke the game since I wasn't able to get the quests back). I'm not sure what could be causing the issue and appreciate the help.

I just want to add that I'm at a loss here.... assassinating Papa Khan did nothing and setting RegisOffer to 1 (I figured this would allow me to do the NCR - Khan alliance) also did nothing. I also tried the same thing but I convinced all the advisors for Papa Khan. The farthest I could do was convince Papa Khan to leave (Regis still did nothing after I killed Papa Khan at this point) or do something with the Followers. I was wondering if anyone has had better luck then me. I really want some control over the ending but with the current problems it isn't working.

Thanks for the help.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:14 pm

You can never go backwards by setting quest stages!
You must load a save. You can console quest stages forward (to get past glitches) but only as a last resort.
I haven't got quite where you are yet...
The Great Khans idolize me - is this a bad thing?
L8R

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:28 am

You can never go backwards by setting quest stages!
You must load a save. You can console quest stages forward (to get past glitches) but only as a last resort.
I haven't got quite where you are yet...
The Great Khans idolize me - is this a bad thing?
L8R

That's the thing though, I'm not trying to go back. I'm at or not yet at any major steps in the quest chain (having started them recently) yet it still bugs out no matter what I do. I think I really just don't care at this point since I can always read up on the other answers on Fallout Wiki.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:21 am

I just want to add that I'm at a loss here.... assassinating Papa Khan did nothing and setting RegisOffer to 1 (I figured this would allow me to do the NCR - Khan alliance) also did nothing. I also tried the same thing but I convinced all the advisors for Papa Khan. The farthest I could do was convince Papa Khan to leave (Regis still did nothing after I killed Papa Khan at this point) or do something with the Followers. I was wondering if anyone has had better luck then me. I really want some control over the ending but with the current problems it isn't working.

Thanks for the help.

There's an unavoidable bug here (at least I haven't found any way to avoid it, or any instructions online about how to avoid it) whereby if you peacefully convince Papa Khan to break the alliance with the Legion and leave the Mojave, the game will only give you the option of telling Moore that that the Khans have been destroyed - even though that's not what you did. It's mildly game-breaking (or at least immersion-breaking) in that not only will you have that problem with Moore, but the random "pvssyr" that you hear from NPCs will include things like "I heard the Khans got attacked again - no survivors this time" (while simultaneously, the quest line with Yes Man and the slide about the Khans in the epilogue will correctly acknowledge that they weren't destroyed but simply left the Mojave). If you're having this problem (or something similar), it doesn't look as though assassinating Papa Khan after the fact fixes anything (at least it didn't do anything for me).

Assassinating Papa Khan the "legit" way, however - i.e. after Moore gives you the order to - should let you properly end the quest, though.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:47 am

You can never go backwards by setting quest stages!
You must load a save. You can console quest stages forward (to get past glitches) but only as a last resort.
I haven't got quite where you are yet...
The Great Khans idolize me - is this a bad thing?
L8R

Couldn't you theoretically go "backwards" by resetting a quest altogether (thereby going back to the beginning), and then setting yourself forwards to the stage you need to be at?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:00 am

There's an unavoidable bug here (at least I haven't found any way to avoid it, or any instructions online about how to avoid it) whereby if you peacefully convince Papa Khan to break the alliance with the Legion and leave the Mojave, the game will only give you the option of telling Moore that that the Khans have been destroyed - even though that's not what you did. It's mildly game-breaking (or at least immersion-breaking) in that not only will you have that problem with Moore, but the random "pvssyr" that you hear from NPCs will include things like "I heard the Khans got attacked again - no survivors this time" (while simultaneously, the quest line with Yes Man and the slide about the Khans in the epilogue will correctly acknowledge that they weren't destroyed but simply left the Mojave). If you're having this problem (or something similar), it doesn't look as though assassinating Papa Khan after the fact fixes anything (at least it didn't do anything for me).

Assassinating Papa Khan the "legit" way, however - i.e. after Moore gives you the order to - should let you properly end the quest, though.

Well I guess I'll just svck it up then.

But what do you mean when Moore gives the order to kill Papa Khan? I thought the quest chain went deal with Khans (in general) > deal with Omertas > deal with House > protect President

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:55 am

Well I guess I'll just svck it up then.

But what do you mean when Moore gives the order to kill Papa Khan? I thought the quest chain went deal with Khans (in general) > deal with Omertas > deal with House > protect President

You have to do some very specific things to get that order from Moore. You have to have started "Oh My Papa" (after getting instructions from Moore to deal with the Khans), but instead of completing it the normal way (by talking to the people and passing the speech checks with Papa), you talk to Regis and ask him his opinion about the NCR - after which you'll get a journal entry saying that the Khans could be convinced to ally with the NCR if Regis was in charge (and a new objective to relay this information to Moore). She will then give you the order to assassinate Papa - if you do that, Regis gets automatically put in charge and the deal gets made.

According to some, you can get the alliance even after completing Oh My Papa by assassinating Papa Khan - but I tried that and it didn't work for me... i.e. I was stuck with whatever the outcome was after ending the quest the first time.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:24 am

You have to do some very specific things to get that order from Moore. You have to have started "Oh My Papa" (after getting instructions from Moore to deal with the Khans), but instead of completing it the normal way (by talking to the people and passing the speech checks with Papa), you talk to Regis and ask him his opinion about the NCR - after which you'll get a journal entry saying that the Khans could be convinced to ally with the NCR if Regis was in charge (and a new objective to relay this information to Moore). She will then give you the order to assassinate Papa - if you do that, Regis gets automatically put in charge and the deal gets made.

According to some, you can get the alliance even after completing Oh My Papa by assassinating Papa Khan - but I tried that and it didn't work for me... i.e. I was stuck with whatever the outcome was after ending the quest the first time.

Yeah I think I'm stuck in that boat as well because I'm pretty sure I did that dialogue option a long time before I even had "For the Republic, Part 2." Ah well. Thanks for clearing this up thought. :/

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:01 pm

Yeah I think I'm stuck in that boat as well because I'm pretty sure I did that dialogue option a long time before I even had "For the Republic, Part 2." Ah well. Thanks for clearing this up thought. :/

Well, if this quest is bugged, then these bugs are really of the annoying sort.

I tried everything to get Papa Khan to join the NCR. I even went (according to the WIKI) to a vault and doing quests for the former jailbreakout-leader Cooke, who joined the Khans after completing his stuff. But Papa only wanted to leave the Mojave. So, there was no other way left than to kill him, put his lieutenant to command and tell the Colonel that the Khans are ready to join.

Is there really no other way to achieve this joining WITHOUT killing Papa Khan?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:40 am

Maybe with a high speech check. Khan hates the NCR.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:15 am

I had the Khans help the NCR but after talking to Papa and having him agree to help at the battle for the dam against the Legion it never happens.

Every quest NPC, quest or little bit of dialog after that always says straight out or leads to the Khans just leaving the area and not helping or that they was killed...

So hopefully the official patch from Bethesda fixes this problem.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:00 am

You have to do some very specific things to get that order from Moore. You have to have started "Oh My Papa" (after getting instructions from Moore to deal with the Khans), but instead of completing it the normal way (by talking to the people and passing the speech checks with Papa), you talk to Regis and ask him his opinion about the NCR - after which you'll get a journal entry saying that the Khans could be convinced to ally with the NCR if Regis was in charge (and a new objective to relay this information to Moore). She will then give you the order to assassinate Papa - if you do that, Regis gets automatically put in charge and the deal gets made.

According to some, you can get the alliance even after completing Oh My Papa by assassinating Papa Khan - but I tried that and it didn't work for me... i.e. I was stuck with whatever the outcome was after ending the quest the first time.

I had it so Papa was alive and willing to help the NCR I had to pass a 85 speech check if I recall but he agreed to help the NCR at the battle for the dam against the Legion.
Thing is after talking to him, it never happen and all the quests, dialog and npc's after that make it out that the Khan's just died or left the area,
I also had similar problems with the Brotherhood of Steel, I had them agree to help the NCR but they never showed up for the battle at the dam.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:08 am

Well, if this quest is bugged, then these bugs are really of the annoying sort.

I tried everything to get Papa Khan to join the NCR. I even went (according to the WIKI) to a vault and doing quests for the former jailbreakout-leader Cooke, who joined the Khans after completing his stuff. But Papa only wanted to leave the Mojave. So, there was no other way left than to kill him, put his lieutenant to command and tell the Colonel that the Khans are ready to join.

Is there really no other way to achieve this joining WITHOUT killing Papa Khan?

It doesn't look as though you can convince Papa Khan to ally with the NCR - but I don't think that's a bug. I think he's genuinely supposed to be opposed to the NCR no matter what, so your only choices with Papa Khan in charge are to convince them to leave the Mojave (which leads to a bug of its own in the dialogue with Moore), or to have them launch a "suicidal attack" on the Legion during the final battle (this depends on which of the two speech options you choose - I'm not sure what happens if you fail the speech check, since I've always had over 75 speech when talking to Papa in my playthroughs).

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:54 am

Unfortunately, it will disable achievements even if you accidentally hit the tilde key. I found this out the hard way during my first playthrough and missed out on at least one achievement - including the one for recruiting your first companion which I actually had to create a new character to get (since for some reason recruiting other companions after the first one didn't trigger it). It also doesn't help that the tilde key is right next to the tab key, which we'll all be pressing quite often since it opens/closes the pipboy. As far as I know, simply opening the console will disable achievements, even if you don't type anything into it - so be careful.

I haven't experienced that issue at all. I constantly open the console and left-click on things to get RefIDs and I still get achievements.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:50 am

I haven't experienced that issue at all. I constantly open the console and left-click on things to get RefIDs and I still get achievements.

Guess I was just unlucky then. For most of my first playthrough, I didn't even know what the console key was (didn't bother looking it up), so I could've only ever hit it by accident. Since some of the achievements I should've gotten didn't show up for some reason (the one I remember most clearly being Ol' Buddy Ol' Pal), I assumed it had something to do with opening the console - though I suppose it could've been some other bug.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:11 am

I haven't experienced that issue at all. I constantly open the console and left-click on things to get RefIDs and I still get achievements.

Hi,
I press the tilde ~ now and then, usually to take a screenshot or even to 'pause' the game...
Also TCL a coupla times.
(Not to hijack this thread) but I was kinda worried after reading what you guys were saying.
Anyway, I notice I never achieved the flying ghouls quest - but I launched those buggers, corrected their course & everything!
So that's weird.
Hey I'm just beginning these quests you guys are talking about... so thanks for all the feedback.
(Prevention being the best cure, after all, maybe I can head off some bugs.)
Regards