Another problem - not sure on the meaning of the FCOM instructions regarding 'replacing' certain MMM files. By replace, does it mean to simply have the FCOM file follow after the MMM one OR for me to actually delete the MMM one and replace it with the FCOM?

For example - I added MMM less Rats, do I keep this and have in the load order the FCOM version after it? Or do I delete MMM and replace it with FCOM?

Strange, the hidden folder was located here on my computer: C:\Program Files\Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion Mods\Bash Mod Data\Hidden

Delete MMM rats, only use the fcom one

Okay, thanks Vaso.

QUESTION 1
FCOM instructions state this: 'FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp (Optional! Use instead of MMM - Friendlier Factions.esp)'

MMM instructions state this: 'Friendlier Factions for OOO+FCOM: Like it says on the box. Inter-faction fights less likely to occur for all creatures, except Bandits and Marauders who are mortal enemies. Use this one for MMM and OOO or MMM and FCOM.

So which one do I choose?


QUESTION 2
I have searched for whether I should include MMM - Fran's leveled quests.esp in the FCOM install. Nothing I could find from the FCOM instructions warned me against this, however the instructions DO say to install Fran's leveled quest but no mention if the MMM version would be okay.

Sorry to ask so many questions but I am trying to be as careful and thus specific as possible. Crossing fingers I don't mess things up bad and have to install game for a 7th time.

I really don't want to clutter other boards with questions that may be simplistic etc. So instead I will just 'bump' this thread in the hopes someone knowledgeable will assist me on the questions listed in the post above. Thanks.

In all cases of FCOM, if there is en equivalent version to MMM's then always replace Mart's file with the Convergence option- unless MMM specifically states otherwise, as 3.7's readme is more up to date than FCOM's.
If you have questions about a particular mod, then posting in the relevant thread is always a good idea rather than a separate thread or post on the topic.
Doing so you will occasionally be answered by well intentioned, but not always knowledgeable users that can result in conflicting and often confusing information.

As far as Frans files are concerned :

Shivering Isles version(Optional)
MOBS
hardcoe Loot
Separate files (Required! CRITICAL!)
Living Economy(Optional; Never use at the same time as standalone LE!)
Optional items add-on(Recommended! Requires separate BSA download!)
Optional chance of more enemies (Only if you picked SI option)
Optional chance of stronger bosses (Required)
Optional chance of stronger enemies (Required)
Optional leveled guards(Only if you picked SI option)

NOTE: The files marked required above must be installed even for a non-SI setup!

The above is quoted directly from the FCOM Convergance homepage
http://devnull.sweetdanger.net/convergence.html

No other Frans files should be used in any FCOM installation

I still don't quite understand. Why would MMM suggest that file is compatible with FCOM when FCOM is suggesting not to use the MMM file? The thing is, the file FCOM instructions refers to is no longer available. I believe it was replaced (guessing here) with the current one which states it IS compatible with FCOM.

:) Can't blame me for getting a bit confused here

You'd better read my edited post above.
And here I am trying to advise you.....

Yeah, I noticed, I edit a bit too often too - sure some miss my posts.

I understand what you are saying about FRAN's. No problem there, but what is very confusing is when the FCOM instructions refers to an MMM file which is no longer available. The closest named MMM files now states it is FCOM compatible. So what does a person do? FCOM Trumps all others, I get that but in this case the file it is suppose to 'trump' no longer exists?

Frans Optional SI quests will depend on which of the FCOM SI replacement patches is used.
If your intention is to do the quests then this one http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/download.php?id=28836
otherwise
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/download.php?id=33603

Links did not work. Still though, I am relatively comfortable with the Fran's part of the FCOM install. The main questions so far have arisen from the MMM part.

Looks as though TESNexus currently has some issues as I'm getting 404's for any download link I try.
I'm sure it's a temporary thing.

As written above, you can install MMM and FCOM using my omod installers. If you do that, the installation script automatically takes care of those things for you. The MMM installation script will know (or ask you if it is in doubt) whether the MMM installation is supposed to be used with FCOM or not, and if used with FCOM, it will not even give you the options for those files that are superceded by FCOM versions. And similarily, the FCOM script detects which mods you have installed, and gives you the correct options/install the correct files based on that.

I already installed MMM, should I uninstall it then work with one of these utilities or keep everything as is?
Also, seems links on TESNEXUS are broken but I was able to download them via PES.

I noticed that the post the mods are linked on have not been updated for some time - could this cause complications if any of the components (mods) FCOM is composed of have been more recently updated?

Thanks

If you have a correct MMM installation, there's no need to reinstall with the omod script.
Also, seems links on TESNEXUS are broken but I was able to download them via PES.

The installers are meant to work with the most recent FCOM version, but when looking at them I see that the MMM version on PES is slightly outdated - I have forgot to upload the last version there. But the FCOM version is supposed to work with 0.9.9.

I just messed up the install. It was an oversight on my part - details listed in the first post.
I am calling it quits now. The idea of redoing all this makes me sick.

What is it? 7 installs of Oblivion? I am losing count...

I am going to taken this setback as an opportunity to utilize 'TheNiceOne's FCOM installer. http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=995334

She (she right?) said it was up to date except perhaps for MMM - I imagine she will find out for sure shortly.

Here it goes folks, Attempt number 7 or is it 8?

If it won't work out for you this time put the idea on the back burner for a little while and work on installing a few smaller addons. Body replacers, perhaps, texture packs, stealth or combat overhauls, etc. Work on installing them through OBMM. Get used to running BOSS.bat in your Oblivion\data folder and reading the complete notes it gives you. The list of notes and how it arranged your mods will pop up automatically after it is done sorting. It'll tell you what bash tags to put on specific mods so they can be merged into bashed patch.esp. You can add tags automatically by selecting your entire list in Wrye Bash, right clicking, and selecting "mark mergeable". Then right click bashed patch.esp and click "rebuild patch". Once you've done that look back at your BOSS notes and make sure you follow the instructions on all the individual notes it gives for any individual mods, if applicable. Some mods need to be merged and then disabled, for example. Some should not be merged at all.

Working with a few simple mods and then throwing in a few slightly more complicated mods, and then maybe ONE of the larger overhaul mods, slowly, over a period of a week or two (or longer if you still can't stand the thought of doing it all again) can help familiarize you with everything you need to know. Installing FCOM is infinitely easier when you're fairly familiar with OBMM/BOSS/Wrye Bash process.

My first round of building a large load order was to add all the best from TOTO - QTPIII and LOD nearly crippled my computer. In my newness I reinstalled Oblivion.

Then I started off on proper mods (esp/esm) and FCOM took a week or two and whole lot of reading. I never even asked a single question anywhere until I had mastered bashing the patch and playing with basic fcom. Baisc FCOM being just the core overhauls not the utilization of every patch that comes with FCOM. All that worked well. Then I added 200 more mods without testing. In my newness I reinstalled Oblvion.

I was probably the most annoying poster on this board for several months because I just could not believe that people would release mods that -I thought- were so bugged. It bothered me that each mod was not also tested against the 200 or so mods that I thought were essential. That is where I was wrong - mod users are responsible for their own load orders and making sure that the mods actually do work together.

You will have to learn the ins and outs of all these tools - period ... no ifs and or buts about that. You will HAVE to read the readmes for each mod and learn how to search documents. You will also have to learn low level mod making - as in editing, cleaning, and checking mod content with tools like edit and the CS if you plan to be successful at this. Earn you stars with real questions. Think about this as participating in a collaborative effort. If you want to try the latest and greatest - you are a beta tester.

The single largest leap I made in being able to beta test, install without hassles, and organize it all was learning BAIN. Next it was tes4edit.

Jasmer is right just basic FCOM (forget every MMM plugin variant for now) and just try basic FCOM - after a few days then make a list of what you'd like to change and slowley try a new plugin. After a few weeks of this you might get to a point where you could test out up to 3-4 mods a day. And even that is dedication (addiction).

I recommend this as well. Once you are more experienced with using mods, you will find it rather difficult to not continuously add mods, because there are just so many cool mods out there (this is why I always find the general concept of "the perfect load order" to be misleading). The key thing right now is to familiarize yourself with this practice.

I managed to successfully install FCOM Mod (part of it anyway). Please do check the Load Order & BOSS Log - first post of this thread and let me know if you see any problems. I actually did not use 'TheNiceOne's tool though I am sure it is a Nice One I instead did everything according to the FCOM install instructions which after 6 times I seem to be developing a proficiency at...

Now to rebuild the BASH file. I have used this Wrye Bash clumsily for a number of days and I am certain I have not fully comprehended its full power.
Checked TES4Edit and there is a lot of red, more than I would have expected seeing that these mods are suppose to flow together. Possibly I have made some mistakes, will be going over it in more detail.

If anyone can offer insight at this point - great. Also regarding the Frostcrag Reborn. I have tried to find documentation on whether it is compatible with FCOM but haven't found anything yet. Some insight on this would be appreciated also.

I don't want to ask a thousands questions on how to use Wrye Bash at the same time I don't want to mess up what has so far been a perfect install.
So IF I tinker around with Wrye Bash, for example - clicking on rebuild patch gives me a number of options - Alias Mod Name, Merge Patches etc. Can I 'test' things without critically screwing my install up? It is only the bash file that will be impacted correct? And if so, I have another copy which I could use and try again - right?

Any insight greatly appreciated!!

Note - Up to Date Load Order & Boss Log on first page, first post.

You can test it by making a backup of your current Bashed Patch and then rebuilding it. If you don't like the results, you can revert to the backup. Wrye Bash has a backup entry in the right-click menu.

Rebuilt Patch. Toggled Leveled Lists & Merge Patches.
Everything seems fine.

However when I open up TES4Edit, I still have much red. I can get into detail on what these red lines are about - anyone here have experience with TESEdit though?

thanks

In the meantime, I am going ahead and installing the remaining optional add ons for FCOM.