Simply that. Discuss anything related to C0DA, be it plot, theories and whatever it represents.

Okay, I posted this in the other thread..

So the Thalmor unbound Akatosh and broke time and brought the Numidium back by accident and now the world is broken in numerous timelines? Talos is still here... and we find out that Talos is quite literally Lorkhan. What's the deal with Talos' relationship to Akatosh then?

I got this whole thing brewing in my mind about how the Fifth Era we saw happened but won't happen even though it's still happening. How Nirn is never wrecked even though it has been wrecked. But I think I need some time before I really even attempt proper articulation.

Also.. the wedding at the end.

The baby is the first born of the Nu-Men... the last avatar of Lorkhan is the new man. Is Jubal the new man? Why did he marry Vivec?

The Wheels of Lull -- great gears visible in Nirn's crumbling corpse -- that's Sotha Sil, right? The Clockwork City?

I remember MK saying C0DA included the "birth of the new Amaranth", the baby was literally born.

I found the imagery quite beautiful, and look forward to seeing the artwork. I'm not going to dig too deep into the meanings behind all of the scenes right now (as there are many interpretations that can unfold, and I have a lot of homework to do this weekend), but I will present some of the "big themes" that I think can be drawn from C0DA.

1. Landfall was the return of Numidium, its time-shattering abilities rendering Akatosh useless/powerless. It cracked Nirn to pieces because... perhaps it hated the Aurbis that gave birth to it? The Numidium was activated by the racial sacrifice of the Dwemer, correct? I recall some discussions bringing up the possibility that the Dwemer were well aware of the structure of the Aurbis, that it was the dream of the Amaranth (Anu/Godhead, it matters not how many "levels" of the Aurbis they knew existed), and that they wanted to use their technologies to escape this reality for a more "pure" one, or at least one that didn't confine their race to the dream of another entity. However the Dwemer understood the structure of the universe only in the sense an academic would, and could not comprehend or fathom the ways in which one could achieve Amaranth to conquer the dreamscape. Their construction of Numidium created an anit-temporal battle-bot with a hatred of the Wheel but no way to leave it. Numidium returned and shattered Nirn, the "hub of the Wheel," perhaps as a last ditch effort to undo the Wheel and end all existence, and with it, its hatred for it.

2. Destroying the Hub of the Wheel did not end the dream. Something held it into place, described as "forces unknown." The cogs and the wheels could mean many things. Perhaps ALMSIVI saved the day, and the cogs and wheels are Sotha-Sil's doing. Perhaps they are the work of other entities, one can only speculate. Perhaps the dreamer himself (Anu) held the hub in place, not permitting his own dream to end (he is in a sensory deprived coma after all, if the scriptures of the sermons are to be believed. And one in a coma cannot wake).

3. Not all of the species from Nirn made it to the moon to escape Landfall. The Khajiit "were there first," undoubtedly due to the high reverence held for the moon in their religious beliefs and practices back on Nirn (as can be read about in the games). They must have perfected some magic allowing travel to the moon long before Landfall occurred. The Dunmer followed them. I doubt that any of the races of Man or the Argonians are there. The only thing related to Argonians that we hear about is the Hist, and the Hist seemed to be connected in some way to the Digitals. So...

4. Either the other races perished on Nirn or fled Nirn for some other plane. The Digitals could be the TEM (Third Empire Man) living either outside of Anu's dream in the 12 worlds of creation or in memory only.... I find the latter conclusion more possible. Memory, which possesses the collective experiences, events, feelings, emotions, and happenings of everything that has ever occurred, is reluctant to let go of the idea that the Empire of Man no longer exists and there is no way of bringing it back. Its been obliterated by Numidium. Memory keeps plucking its ghostly fingers into the world, but is unable to make any sort of coherent sense, because its a mash-up of memories from bygone eras when things were different. It is connected to Nirn, which is shattered and towered over by a time-obliterating aurbis-hating robot that refuses to let it gain a foothold. Memory probably consists of all of the deities and heroes who are doing battle with the planet-sized Numidium among the shattered fragments of Nirn. It wants to fight and win, to regain the ability to "mend" things back to the way they were (exemplified by the scene with Akatosh in the Corner Club). But it can't win. Time was broken by Numidium, which is a super-powerful robot that keeps destroying Memory's avatars... beings from the games, from the history of the TES universe, etc. All of the Aedra and Daedra are probably part of this, fighting Numidium because they want their playground, their arena back to the way it was.

5. The Dunmer on the moon are following the teachings of Vivec and ALMSIVI. They know that to give some sense of stability to the mess created by Numidium, someone needs to undergo the process of becoming the New Amaranth, who can lead the people into becoming the Nu-Men.

6. ALMSIVI has become some CHIM trio of superheroes that also works with Dagoth Ur and Molag Bal (the former of which now helps ALMSIVI out because.. well.. time broke and why the hell not?). ALMSIVI flies around doing battle with all of the chaotic elements that spawn from a universe with a broken time-scape, allowing the last remnants of anything "normal" to exist underneath the lunar surface. Any threats to this world would take away the ability for anyone or anything to achieve the new Amaranth, and so Tomorrowind must be protected at all costs. Jubal talks as if Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha-Sil have battled a seemingly infinite amount of weird threats in a world where time and space have been distorted by a vengeful robot that tried shattering the whole universe to pieces. I also suspect that the interior of Lorkhan's corpse has something to do with allowing Tomorrowind to exist, giving the tribunal enough power to actually combat the weird things that threaten the new nation.

7. Jubal's final confrontation with Numidium does one thing that no one thought possibly: bestow the idea of Love upon Numidium, which can be likened to bestowing the idea of Love upon the Dwemer race. Numidium dies because with such a knowledge of Love, the Dwemer may have understood their ambitions a little bit better, perhaps they wouldn't have ever created Numidium in the first place. If Numidium never exists, perhaps Nirn never gets shattered, perhaps the universe as-it-is after Nirn is shattered becomes stable again, and things will never be the same? Who is to know? The erasure of the text in the last section that was the text in the beginning section suggests something about time and it being mended somehow. The restoration of Lorkhan's heart to his body? Not sure what that can mean. I have to admit the ending is thoroughly confusing me but it definitely left me with a sense of happiness, that something was finally made right in a universe where seemingly everything is out to proliferate suffering.

My first two cents. Can't wait for that artwork.

I would like to add to my points 4 and 7.

4. Memory is incapable of defeating Numidium because it is exactly nothing more than Memory. Memory is likely insane, because all of its memories are not consistent with each other, they come from different timelines that should contradict each other but somehow do not, because Numidium screwed everything up. Memory says goodbye, and perhaps that means that it obliterates itself to remove itself from the equation so that the survivors of Landfall can finally build a new world under the New Amaranth without the interference of a Mind-Shattered Entity of Memories that logically cannot even exist anymore.

7. The New Amaranth is essentially the recognition of universal Love throughout the Aurbis. Perhaps the Dream of Anu was dependent on fighting and betrayal because the Annuad is literal. Maybe Anu was betrayed by Padomay, Nirn was killed, the twelve worlds of Creation sundered. Anu cast out Padomay and, filled with grief for his losses, combined the remains of the twelve worlds into one - Nirn. This combining happened in his DREAM, not in the first world. His depression left him only one option, dream of the thing he wanted the most, creation.

But depression can be a signal of something else - deep and infallible Love. Anu loved creation so much that he could not bear a reality without it, and so he withdrew into his dream where creation still existed. But the dream was tainted by the experiences of its dreamer, and so the dream warred against itself, caused incalculable suffering among its many manifestations. The New Amaranth could be that dream-fragment that recognizes why the Dream was created in the first place - because Anu loved creation so much. The creation of the New Amaranth bestows universal recognition of this Love to all dream-fragments, uniting them in this realization as to the meaning of their own existence and eliminating any need for further conflict and betrayal. They were all created because the Dreamer loved them so much.

Either this makes far too much sense, or I understand a lot more about TES lore than I thought I did.

(don't) reach heaven by violence.

Well, uh, the Hlaalu are dead now? Or just that one? It sounded like Hir was the last of the Hlaalu, but I'm not sure.

After some thought, it comes to mind that the ALMSIVI-as-superheroes segment was a television show that the Dunmer on Masser were known to watch. While it could be based on the past in some way, I'm not sure that we should treat it entirely literally.

Lol, I know that regardless I'm not taking that segment literally

Its possible, however I don't feel like such a large segment of C0DA would focus on a television show that was fictional. Maybe ALMSIVI's encounters with whatever weird-spawn existed after Numidium returned was/is televised?

"Our world" at this point is what remains of the normality of the Mundus - the city underneath the Lunar surface, which Numidium is probably trying to constantly destroy and rip apart.

Perhaps the endeavors of ALMSIVI is taken by the people of the moon and converted into TV shows and movies for entertainment. Similar to how we make movies based on the real-life actions of people we consider heroic and courageous. Similar to how we adapt different versions of things like the Iliad and the Odyssey.

The overall story of ALMSIVI facing down Yagrum Bagarn and the Intellective may be true, but the version of it we see in C0DA might be modified... I remember in the other thread that MK said he would like to see the same scene written in different words without all the TV stuff going on, to make it more like what one would expect from the TES universe, but that doesn't make either account more true than the other.

I refuse to believe that mankind doesn't survive in some way.

Maybe some survived on the moon with the Dunmer and the Khajiit? What's going on with the other moon as well? Anyone living there? Maybe mankind survived somewhere in Oblivion or Aetherius. Who knows.

NO.

Joking aside, that kind of thought goes against MK's philosophy of "Make whatever happened up."

BTW, is Sul and Vivec the new Anu and Padomay? Their interplay reminded me of the brush of Anu and Padomay, which created the Gray Maybe.

Maybe is the magic word.

Secunda... Tatterdemalion. In Landfall Day One, an Imperial Warspore was sleeving for Mundus Redundant. So the possibility that mankind still exists on either Secunda or another timeline still remains.

So let's make our own C0DAs. Make an answer to it.

Finally, thank you MK, I have understood what C0DA is storywise. C0DA is Time, but not the timeline of the TES IP, it is the timeline of TES as a whole.

So let's answer everything, register it in C0DA, as the Sul bloodline was.

This is [censored] beautiful.

Hell, for my part, I'm of the opinion that once Numidium learns love and we get our wedding at the end, everything is "fixed" and Landfall is averted in full. This is TES' "Wedding of River Song", insofar as I interpret it. An interpretation which most people will probably see as something of a cop out, no doubt.

Nope, it completely fits. Know Love to avoid Landfall, indeed. The sending of the Loveletter in time doesn't make sense otherwise.

What is Landfall Day One and where can I view it?

It's a prelude to C0DA that MK wrote. It features a massive battle of the Thalmor and the Empire (and Morrowind too) against the Numidium, that spans whole timelines. And someone shows up with a special friend...

http://lagbt.wiwiland.net/wikibiblio/index.php/Landfall:_Day_One

You can also look for it on these forums as well under a the name of "C0DA Preview" in a thread by Hircine.

And now finally people can stop denying Talos is Lorkhan.

They still could.