Caesar, Kimball, House, The King... what shade of gray did y : Fallout Series Discussion

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:41 am

I think you're mistaken here on a great many things. House doesn't not want the NCR eliminated. He wants his own personal fiefdom with a long term relationship with the NCR. He has no need to eliminate the Van Graffs or the Crimson Caravans.

Lets look at the order of withdrawal:

He's building an economy based on energy; water... and Tourism.

TO GENERAL OLIVER (or highest-ranking survivor)

TO THE NCR PRESIDENT

TO THE NCR COUNCIL

FROM ROBERT EDWIN HOUSE

As Chief Executive of the Free Economic Zone of New Vegas, I hereby demand the IMMEDIATE WITHDRAWAL of all NCR military personnel from New Vegas and its surrounding territories.

a) Yes, "all military personnel" includes NCR Rangers.

B) "New Vegas and its surrounding territories" includes (but is not limited to) Hoover Dam, McCarran International Airport, HELIOS One, and the El Dorado Substation.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE that my vast army of heavily-armed Securitrons has been rather inflexibly programmed to respond to acts of aggression with overwhelming force.

a) For examples of "heavily-armed" and "overwhelming force," I will refer you to the pitiless campaign of extermination my Securitrons will have visited upon Caesar's Legion by the time you are reading this document.

b ) Any NCR military personnel who do not withdraw from New Vegas and its territories will be seen as committing an "act of aggression."

NCR civilians are NOT subject to this order of withdrawal! They may visit New Vegas freely, enjoying all that the Vegas Strip has to offer!

So long as NCR military personnel comply with this order to withdraw, electricity and water will continue to flow from Hoover Dam to the NCR.

a) Electricity: 5 caps per kilowatt hour.

b ) Water: 5 caps per gallon

The NCR Council's Office of Budget will receive invoices bi-weekly. Prices are subject to change without notice.

Cordially,

Robert Edwin House
Chief Executive
Free Economic Zone of New Vegas

NCR guy 1:What are we going to do now we have been kicked out of vegas!
NCR guy 2:So? We can finally take a break and sort things out back here!
NCR guy 1:What about all the people still heading to vegas.
NCR guy 2:Their not allowed go any more, The guys up top cut off all ties to New vegas.
NCR guy 1:What about the power from the Dam?
NCR guy 2:What about food to New vegas? They cut them off, Their going to starve.
NCR guy 1:Serves 'em right anyways, We suffered to protect the Mojave and that Basterd stabs us in the back.
NCR guy 2:We have the only viable access to Vegas now! That city is going to last two weeks tops.

NCRs response to house:

Dear Mr.House,

We have looked over your terms and have terms of our own:
Surrender or starve.

If that is not viable at this time, We can still sell you food at the rate of 50,000 caps per KG.
(Subject to change at whim)

Have a Nice day,
The NCR senate.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:47 pm

NCRs response to house:

Dear Mr.House,

We have looked over your terms and have terms of our own:
Surrender or starve.

If that is not viable at this time, We can still sell you food at the rate of 50,000 caps per KG.
(Subject to change at whim)

Have a Nice day,
The NCR senate.

If I were House and that was their responce I would kill every single NCR citizen in New Vegas and show the public what the NCR senate condsiders negotiating. Sure the NCR could attack New Vegas for that but with MK2 secutitrons' powerful weaponry and their auto-repair feature they would only succeed at killing many of their troops.

This would probably cause people to get so sick of their politicians that they would revolt against their leaders for simplying being idiots.

House demands are very well thought out and will cause both him and the NCR to thrive if the NCR agrees to the conditions.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:29 pm

NCR is trouble and will turn vegas into anoher Reno.

That's good because Reno became a good place to live.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:14 pm

NCR guy 1:What are we going to do now we have been kicked out of vegas!
NCR guy 2:So? We can finally take a break and sort things out back here!
NCR guy 1:What about all the people still heading to vegas.
NCR guy 2:Their not allowed go any more, The guys up top cut off all ties to New vegas.
NCR guy 1:What about the power from the Dam?
NCR guy 2:What about food to New vegas? They cut them off, Their going to starve.
NCR guy 1:Serves 'em right anyways, We suffered to protect the Mojave and that Basterd stabs us in the back.
NCR guy 2:We have the only viable access to Vegas now! That city is going to last two weeks tops.

NCRs response to house:

Dear Mr.House,

We have looked over your terms and have terms of our own:
Surrender or starve.

If that is not viable at this time, We can still sell you food at the rate of 50,000 caps per KG.
(Subject to change at whim)

Have a Nice day,
The NCR senate.

So the NCR's response to losing New Vegas is to ban all their trading companies from going into a highly profitable, safe market, where the client is super rich and the only worry you have is tripping up on some broken road? yeah I'm pretty sure they'll be fine with that. Also those NCR citizens will live just fine without that Water and Electricity and they'll really love their leaders for denying them those things, also there are farms in new Vegas and Mr. House does have money to hire farmers and water for crops.

Then there is the issue of that massive securitron army which ~~could~~would be bad news for the NCR.

And last I checked, neither House nor the massive securitron army need food, just electricity, which they've got quite a lot of.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:57 pm

NCR guy 1:What are we going to do now we have been kicked out of vegas!
NCR guy 2:So? We can finally take a break and sort things out back here!
NCR guy 1:What about all the people still heading to vegas.
NCR guy 2:Their not allowed go any more, The guys up top cut off all ties to New vegas.
NCR guy 1:What about the power from the Dam?
NCR guy 2:What about food to New vegas? They cut them off, Their going to starve.
NCR guy 1:Serves 'em right anyways, We suffered to protect the Mojave and that Basterd stabs us in the back.
NCR guy 2:We have the only viable access to Vegas now! That city is going to last two weeks tops.

NCRs response to house:

Dear Mr.House,

We have looked over your terms and have terms of our own:
Surrender or starve.

If that is not viable at this time, We can still sell you food at the rate of 50,000 caps per KG.
(Subject to change at whim)

Have a Nice day,
The NCR senate.

That's the dumbest thing NCR could ever do. House is not at war with NCR, he is defending his right to power. Should House win, he makes it firmly established in dialogue and the treaty he sees NCR as a mutual ally, they both gain from each other and are ultimately after the same things, IE return to Pre-War structure. Caesars Legion is an uncomprimising backwards nation, to restore America to glory, it is a must for CL to be exterminated. With his Mk II Securitrons, House could easily sweep the NCR in the Mojave to dust, but he doesnt, because he sees them as a useful ally that is over stepping their boundaries, the Legion however is an absolute must to destroy, much like the Brotherhood. The BoS and the Legion both are an extremist militant society that don't offer a long term goal for the future. House and NCR do. I prefer House ruling because New Vegas is ruled by a genius, and NCR can lick its wounds, secure it's borders, and when the time is right, expand outwards once more. The way I see it, House winning just means less of a burden on NCRs overall goal of a stable nation state.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:17 pm

House has no right to power.
The NCR would be pissed at him, and can starve vegas.
Securitrons are a joke, They have very limited situations where they can be effective.

There,thats the jist of it.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:24 am

House has no right to power.
The NCR would be pissed at him, and can starve vegas.
Securitrons are a joke, They have very limited situations where they can be effective.

There,thats the jist of it.

You are more backwards than Caesar's Legion.

Did you even read the comments responding to your's? If not than do not post.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:09 pm

You are more backwards than Caesar's Legion.

Did you even read the comments responding to your's? If not than do not post.

I did.
I see no point is spreading the truth to stubborn House supporters.
They don't listen to truths.

And thank you for the Compliment.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:45 pm

I did.
I see no point is spreading the truth to stubborn House supporters.
They don't listen to truths.

And thank you for the Compliment.

Stubborn House supporters? You won't even respond to our well thought out comments!

We listen to truth if it actually is truth, not what others call truth.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:01 pm

Stubborn House supporters? You won't even respond to our well thought out comments!

We listen to truth if it actually is truth, not what others call truth.

There it is!
The Start of the circle!
We have derailed this topic.

Spoiler

1. Securitrons are the most over rated 'army' ever.
2. The fact they are severly limited in where they can go is proof enough.
3. They still need ammo like everyone else and still need direct human intervention to have any tactics that would work.
4. Mr.House is a Pre-war businessman,Not a wasteland General.
5. PA Is still the toughest thing around.
6. NCR also has vertiberds. "But Securitrons have SAMs!" Yeah,a robot using pre-war SAMs Trying to take down an areial vehicle that was still experimental at the time and improved by the enclave is more than likely to have a few counter-measures.
7. A Vet-ranger sniper team with AMRs could pick off securitrons with ease.
8. They have a limited range and are vunerable to pulse weapons.
9. Lastly,They have a single central command center,commander and base. The WORST thing to have in a war.

1.The courier can not be factored into this equation as we do not know what is canon.
2.The Three familys? Two are already plotting to betray House and the third can be convinced to do so.
3.This thread is in the universe section,so Lore>Gameplay. The can not have unlimted 9mm,Missle and grenade ammo. Gatling lasers maybe.
4."Move up the right flank,cover us from his 7 'o' clock and then engage the 3 at 8 and 10!" What negoiation did you hear this in?
It takes more than a big brain to be an effective leader. It takes expierence.
5.The Brotherhood did lose Helios,The Enclave lost navaro. Who beat them? The NCR.
If they can over run guys with APA and PRs in their own heavily fortified base,Imagine what they could do to a bunch of Mk2 securitrons roaming the wastes?
6.Once again,Lore>Gameplay. A handful of vertiberds is all you need to win. Is a very good bet they have chaff flares to stop securitron SAMs.
A single veritberd loaded with Mini-nukes could inflict horrific damage on securitrons.
7.Whats house going to manually control? His robot has already been taken out with a .50cal round.
Even if he could detect the rangers,he still cannot respond until moving closer.
And I already talked about the three familys and courier.
8.House needs the el dorado substation to boost his tranismitter range so he can control the securitrons at the fort!
Good luck to them trying to roll there way to shady sands!
9.You kill House and then what? you have a robot that can fight,but no orders,no commands.
It just sits there and rots.

Quote from gabe:
I could deal with them with a mere laser rifle, is the lore saying they should be stronger? (Like with Legion) Cause if not I doubt they should be considered anything near tanks, more like rolling armed kitchen supplies.

A man that thinks he can beat the NCR, Can have people in space and failed to save all of vegas because he forget to update his drivers?
He's an idiot.

Quote from WONDERWOMBAT:
That's what I find funny. He sits in a tube for 200 years for what? Just to have a post-apocalyptic New Vegas look nice?

If I saved all of the US from a nuclear war, should I be allowed to take over?

The Future of humanity starts with the people.
If you do not care for the people, How can you care for humanity?
This is one reason why House will fail.

He has the Mill but not the Steel.
He can not trade with the NCR as they will be HOSTILE to him.
House has no "mighty hand". He has an 'army' of glorified robots.

I showed House Mercy......It left a horrible mess.

What empire will you have when there are no people?
The People come first, The Nation comes after,
Michelangelo? He painted a roof and built a statue,
Lenin? He fought for the people, then to create a land for the people.
Romulus built Rome, and Rome became a state for its people.

If he ingnores the people, the people will Ignore him.
And he will rot away until the NCR gets him.

NCR to the west.
Legion to the East.
White legs and Raiders to the north.
Nothing to the south.

I do not support the NCR, I support the Brotherhood.
Ask around the strip, House taxes merchants 50% of their income.
Thats pretty danm heavy.

NCR to the west.
Legion to the East.
White legs and Raiders to the north.
Nothing to the south.

I do not support the NCR, I support the Brotherhood.
Ask around the strip, House taxes merchants 50% of their income.
Thats pretty danm heavy.

Where would House get the "Best and Brighest" from?
The Tribal Legion?
The Hostile NCR?
He has too many enemies to ever have a chance of winning.

You must be thinking of Stalin, Lenin lead the people and tried to create an equal soicety.
But this idea fell apart because of the speed at which it was brought in.

Their presence suggests nothing. If you do Cass's quest you can see the NCR can hurt them with just mere evidence.

Radiation does not just 'Disappear'. The ground will still be irradiated for a long time.
The only way they got water was when the NCR fixed up the pipeline. Just by doing that they have shown they care more about the people than House.

The Boomers are out for themselves and themselves only. They could care less if Vegas was attacked.

Or they could just bomb NV.

They are only grown with NCR supplied water.
And Hosue cares nothing for Westside and the NCR can be convinced of their good side.

My vision is clear, House supporters are blind to the truth like him.
It would last until the NCR blows out Houses brains.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:33 am

Spoiler

1. Securitrons are the most over rated 'army' ever.
Care to prove it? I think the Veteran Rangers are the most overrated pansies. Opinion > Fact.

2. The fact they are severly limited in where they can go is proof enough.
A. Why would they go beyond Vegas? Mr. House isn't interested in expanding, House cares for the Vegas region and the Vegas region alone. Your point is moot.

3. They still need ammo like everyone else and still need direct human intervention to have any tactics that would work.
It's stated and proven that House restocks and tunes them in the basemant of the Lucky 38

4. Mr.House is a Pre-war businessman,Not a wasteland General.
No, House was a businessman with some of the most vital contracts to the USAF's hardware, he was just as in the know as any general would be.

5. PA Is still the toughest thing around.
Right, because the Brotherhood is doing SOOOO well at this point in the series.

6. NCR also has vertiberds. "But Securitrons have SAMs!" Yeah,a robot using pre-war SAMs Trying to take down an areial vehicle that was still experimental at the time and improved by the enclave is more than likely to have a few counter-measures.
Judging by ingame appearances, I'm going to bet NCR doesnt have the know how and resources to fly an army of Vertibirds. If they did, they'd have taken out the Fort ages ago.

7. A Vet-ranger sniper team with AMRs could pick off securitrons with ease.
And then that team would be destroyed by the missle launcher/grenade launcher/9mm smg/auto repairing robot platoon

8. They have a limited range and are vunerable to pulse weapons.
I've already countered your range attitude, and the same could be said of Power Armor. If the BoS was so tough, I wouldnt have killed them in the few pulls of a sparking guns trigger

9. Lastly,They have a single central command center,commander and base. The WORST thing to have in a war.
Who cares? House isnt at war with NCR, he's at war with a group of savage tribals that couldnt hold a candle to House's army.

Spoiler

1.The courier can not be factored into this equation as we do not know what is canon.
We CAN use the courier because until further notice, any route can be argued as canon. If you want to argue it, NCR gets bombed, loses Nelson, and is over run at Hoover Dam in the end, it's obvious the Courier is the reason any faction besides the Legion wins at Hoover.

2.The Three familys? Two are already plotting to betray House and the third can be convinced to do so.
So? NCR has corrupt Brahmin Barons pissing all over the silly failure of a system called 'democracy' and influencing things with money as opposed to 'for the people'. Ergo NCR politicians are betraying NCR

3.This thread is in the universe section,so Lore>Gameplay. The can not have unlimted 9mm,Missle and grenade ammo. Gatling lasers maybe.
Again resupplied in the Lucky 38 and likely the Fortification Hill bunker when activated

4."Move up the right flank,cover us from his 7 'o' clock and then engage the 3 at 8 and 10!" What negoiation did you hear this in?
No idea, but it sounds like some dumb military drone who cant think for himself or for diplomacy.

Spoiler

It takes more than a big brain to be an effective leader. It takes expierence.
Right, because single handedly saving a city from 77 atomic warheads, preparing the greater good of mankind, and negotiating to turn tribals into civilized people, founding a multibillion dollar corporation at 20 isnt experience. Brilliant logic.

5.The Brotherhood did lose Helios,The Enclave lost navaro. Who beat them? The NCR.
If they can over run guys with APA and PRs in their own heavily fortified base,Imagine what they could do to a bunch of Mk2 securitrons roaming the wastes?
BoS are people, they need to eat, sleep, urinate, dress wounds. Mk ll Securitrons are untiring, unhungering, and automatically repair themselves.

6.Once again,Lore>Gameplay. A handful of vertiberds is all you need to win. Is a very good bet they have chaff flares to stop securitron SAMs.
A single veritberd loaded with Mini-nukes could inflict horrific damage on securitrons.
Shut up about the stupid vertibirds already dude. When the NCR effectively uses these vertibirds for combat in the game then we'll talk. If it's that easy, they would have bombed the fort. Do you know who it took to actually do it? A group of tribals in a 300 year old repaired bomber, not NCR.

7.Whats house going to manually control? His robot has already been taken out with a .50cal round.
Even if he could detect the rangers,he still cannot respond until moving closer.
Arguing your own hypothetical situation is a pathetic thing to bring into a debate.

8.House needs the el dorado substation to boost his tranismitter range so he can control the securitrons at the fort!
Good luck to them trying to roll there way to shady sands!
Funny, all it took was me, a stealthboy, and a small chip and I activated the substation in Houses favor.

9.You kill House and then what? you have a robot that can fight,but no orders,no commands.
It just sits there and rots.
Read in game dialogue, Securitrons are pre-programmed, not all independantely controlled.

Quote from gabe:
I could deal with them with a mere laser rifle, is the lore saying they should be stronger? (Like with Legion) Cause if not I doubt they should be considered anything near tanks, more like rolling armed kitchen supplies.
You're arguing a gameplay vs lore situation, again, moot point.

A man that thinks he can beat the NCR, Can have people in space and failed to save all of vegas because he forget to update his drivers?
He's an idiot.
Who's that? See, if memory serves, House says, and I quote, 'Why would I want to go to war with the NCR? They're my best customers.' Face it, you're arguing half done points, or just overly untrue ones. House isnt after a war with NCR.

Spoiler

Quote from WONDERWOMBAT:
That's what I find funny. He sits in a tube for 200 years for what? Just to have a post-apocalyptic New Vegas look nice?

If I saved all of the US from a nuclear war, should I be allowed to take over?

The Future of humanity starts with the people.
If you do not care for the people, How can you care for humanity?
This is one reason why House will fail.

He has the Mill but not the Steel.
He can not trade with the NCR as they will be HOSTILE to him.
House has no "mighty hand". He has an 'army' of glorified robots.

I showed House Mercy......It left a horrible mess.

What empire will you have when there are no people?
The People come first, The Nation comes after,
Michelangelo? He painted a roof and built a statue,
Lenin? He fought for the people, then to create a land for the people.
Romulus built Rome, and Rome became a state for its people.

If he ingnores the people, the people will Ignore him.
And he will rot away until the NCR gets him.

NCR to the west.
Legion to the East.
White legs and Raiders to the north.
Nothing to the south.

I do not support the NCR, I support the Brotherhood.
Ask around the strip, House taxes merchants 50% of their income.
Thats pretty danm heavy.

NCR to the west.
Legion to the East.
White legs and Raiders to the north.
Nothing to the south.

I do not support the NCR, I support the Brotherhood.
Ask around the strip, House taxes merchants 50% of their income.
Thats pretty danm heavy.

Where would House get the "Best and Brighest" from?
The Tribal Legion?
The Hostile NCR?
He has too many enemies to ever have a chance of winning.

You must be thinking of Stalin, Lenin lead the people and tried to create an equal soicety.
But this idea fell apart because of the speed at which it was brought in.

Their presence suggests nothing. If you do Cass's quest you can see the NCR can hurt them with just mere evidence.

Radiation does not just 'Disappear'. The ground will still be irradiated for a long time.
The only way they got water was when the NCR fixed up the pipeline. Just by doing that they have shown they care more about the people than House.

The Boomers are out for themselves and themselves only. They could care less if Vegas was attacked.

Or they could just bomb NV.

They are only grown with NCR supplied water.
And Hosue cares nothing for Westside and the NCR can be convinced of their good side.

My vision is clear, House supporters are blind to the truth like him.
It would last until the NCR blows out Houses brains.

Verbosely he's just citing from a point that NCR is hostile, but here's the funny part, I recall nowhere in House's endslides any mention of war with NCR, face it, NCR fans are just trying to wish this was true soley to have some defense to the 'NCR AN TEH DEMCARCY IZ TEH RITE!' attitude. Just grow up and accept both sides have their flaws. House is better for Vegas and NCR is better for the general regions. House winning means NCR can pull out and secure the lands it once strongly held. Also, Wombats point is a failure because it indicates in the game that A. more endings than not for Honest Hearts show that the White Legs are crushed to a man by the 80's. The Legion falls into chaos upon the failure at Hoover and if you line up the factions timelines, around the time of Kimballs speech and the Dam, Caesar falls ill due to his tumor, and is said to 'not wake up' from Lucius or w/e his name is. Without a doctor, Caesar dies, and Lanius can possibly die, and with The Fort being set on fire, I dont see much if it's command structure getting out alive.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:25 pm

There it is!
The Start of the circle!
We have derailed this topic.

Spoiler

1. Securitrons are the most over rated 'army' ever.
2. The fact they are severly limited in where they can go is proof enough.
3. They still need ammo like everyone else and still need direct human intervention to have any tactics that would work.
4. Mr.House is a Pre-war businessman,Not a wasteland General.
5. PA Is still the toughest thing around.
6. NCR also has vertiberds. "But Securitrons have SAMs!" Yeah,a robot using pre-war SAMs Trying to take down an areial vehicle that was still experimental at the time and improved by the enclave is more than likely to have a few counter-measures.
7. A Vet-ranger sniper team with AMRs could pick off securitrons with ease.
8. They have a limited range and are vunerable to pulse weapons.
9. Lastly,They have a single central command center,commander and base. The WORST thing to have in a war.

1.The courier can not be factored into this equation as we do not know what is canon.
2.The Three familys? Two are already plotting to betray House and the third can be convinced to do so.
3.This thread is in the universe section,so Lore>Gameplay. The can not have unlimted 9mm,Missle and grenade ammo. Gatling lasers maybe.
4."Move up the right flank,cover us from his 7 'o' clock and then engage the 3 at 8 and 10!" What negoiation did you hear this in?
It takes more than a big brain to be an effective leader. It takes expierence.
5.The Brotherhood did lose Helios,The Enclave lost navaro. Who beat them? The NCR.
If they can over run guys with APA and PRs in their own heavily fortified base,Imagine what they could do to a bunch of Mk2 securitrons roaming the wastes?
6.Once again,Lore>Gameplay. A handful of vertiberds is all you need to win. Is a very good bet they have chaff flares to stop securitron SAMs.
A single veritberd loaded with Mini-nukes could inflict horrific damage on securitrons.
7.Whats house going to manually control? His robot has already been taken out with a .50cal round.
Even if he could detect the rangers,he still cannot respond until moving closer.
And I already talked about the three familys and courier.
8.House needs the el dorado substation to boost his tranismitter range so he can control the securitrons at the fort!
Good luck to them trying to roll there way to shady sands!
9.You kill House and then what? you have a robot that can fight,but no orders,no commands.
It just sits there and rots.

Quote from gabe:
I could deal with them with a mere laser rifle, is the lore saying they should be stronger? (Like with Legion) Cause if not I doubt they should be considered anything near tanks, more like rolling armed kitchen supplies.

A man that thinks he can beat the NCR, Can have people in space and failed to save all of vegas because he forget to update his drivers?
He's an idiot.

Quote from WONDERWOMBAT:
That's what I find funny. He sits in a tube for 200 years for what? Just to have a post-apocalyptic New Vegas look nice?

If I saved all of the US from a nuclear war, should I be allowed to take over?

The Future of humanity starts with the people.
If you do not care for the people, How can you care for humanity?
This is one reason why House will fail.

He has the Mill but not the Steel.
He can not trade with the NCR as they will be HOSTILE to him.
House has no "mighty hand". He has an 'army' of glorified robots.

I showed House Mercy......It left a horrible mess.

What empire will you have when there are no people?
The People come first, The Nation comes after,
Michelangelo? He painted a roof and built a statue,
Lenin? He fought for the people, then to create a land for the people.
Romulus built Rome, and Rome became a state for its people.

If he ingnores the people, the people will Ignore him.
And he will rot away until the NCR gets him.

NCR to the west.
Legion to the East.
White legs and Raiders to the north.
Nothing to the south.

I do not support the NCR, I support the Brotherhood.
Ask around the strip, House taxes merchants 50% of their income.
Thats pretty danm heavy.

NCR to the west.
Legion to the East.
White legs and Raiders to the north.
Nothing to the south.

I do not support the NCR, I support the Brotherhood.
Ask around the strip, House taxes merchants 50% of their income.
Thats pretty danm heavy.

Where would House get the "Best and Brighest" from?
The Tribal Legion?
The Hostile NCR?
He has too many enemies to ever have a chance of winning.

You must be thinking of Stalin, Lenin lead the people and tried to create an equal soicety.
But this idea fell apart because of the speed at which it was brought in.

Their presence suggests nothing. If you do Cass's quest you can see the NCR can hurt them with just mere evidence.

Radiation does not just 'Disappear'. The ground will still be irradiated for a long time.
The only way they got water was when the NCR fixed up the pipeline. Just by doing that they have shown they care more about the people than House.

The Boomers are out for themselves and themselves only. They could care less if Vegas was attacked.

Or they could just bomb NV.

They are only grown with NCR supplied water.
And Hosue cares nothing for Westside and the NCR can be convinced of their good side.

My vision is clear, House supporters are blind to the truth like him.
It would last until the NCR blows out Houses brains.

You are forcing it in a circle!
It was moving along just fine until three or four posts ago when you started bringing up points that had been already addressed.

The NCR would NEVER risk a war with House if he won Hoover Dam. They would have no electricty and they would be running low on water, a six month war with House and they would be out of water with no working factories or radios. The NCR would collapse into anarchy all because a few politicians couldn't accept that House had the better hand all along.

And on House's side a six month war with the NCR would do no harm. He has the ammunition to keep his securitrons stocked, he has the numbers (and the auto-repair) to keep his borders secure, and he has the water and power to keep the region stable and attract NCR citizens, no matter the risk.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:27 pm

You are forcing it in a circle!
It was moving along just fine until three or four posts ago when you started bringing up points that had been already addressed.

The NCR would NEVER risk a war with House if he won Hoover Dam. They would have no electricty and they would be running low on water, a six month war with House and they would be out of water with no working factories or radios. The NCR would collapse into anarchy all because a few politicians couldn't accept that House had the better hand all along.

And on House's side a six month war with the NCR would do no harm. He has the ammunition to keep his securitrons stocked, he has the numbers (and the auto-repair) to keep his borders secure, and he has the water and power to keep the region stable and attract NCR citizens, no matter the risk.

The thing is though, unless the player does something, House doesnt initiate any bloodshed with NCR, he's trying hard to do what every other little guy has been wanting to do NCR for ages, to say 'This is MY land, and you can't have it!'. House merely wants to run New Vegas his way, which is the same as it was Pre-War, a resort town, an oasis in the desert. Personally I support NCR's global agenda, just not their immediate control of Vegas. My envisionment is House will turn Vegas into a very Pre-War city, and by that time NCR will have expanded to a point where House recognizes it is smart to just quietly be annexed as opposed to starting a fight with them. I sincerely think Vegas and NCR are better off with House at the reigns of Vegas.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:22 pm

That's the dumbest thing NCR could ever do. House is not at war with NCR, he is defending his right to power. Should House win, he makes it firmly established in dialogue and the treaty he sees NCR as a mutual ally, they both gain from each other and are ultimately after the same things, IE return to Pre-War structure. Caesars Legion is an uncomprimising backwards nation, to restore America to glory, it is a must for CL to be exterminated. With his Mk II Securitrons, House could easily sweep the NCR in the Mojave to dust, but he doesnt, because he sees them as a useful ally that is over stepping their boundaries, the Legion however is an absolute must to destroy, much like the Brotherhood. The BoS and the Legion both are an extremist militant society that don't offer a long term goal for the future. House and NCR do. I prefer House ruling because New Vegas is ruled by a genius, and NCR can lick its wounds, secure it's borders, and when the time is right, expand outwards once more. The way I see it, House winning just means less of a burden on NCRs overall goal of a stable nation state.

At some point if House wins, he would have to agree to join the NCR. Like you said the NCR will come back and they would come back in even greater force. Still the two sides can get along and have much in common. House just wants to run his business which is controlling the Strip. NCR just wants the taxes.

I don't get why NCR hasn't just cut House a deal. Let House run The Strip, (hell he could run Freeside and Westside as well) in exchange, House pays a tax to the NCR and follows the laws of the NCR. This would not bother House because in the end his biggest customer for tech and gambling would be the NCR. He would make billions! House's area becomes a state (a very small one) within the NCR. Both would gain alot from such a deal. NCR would control the rest of the Mojave.

The only reason I can think of for NCR not doing such a deal already, is they would be afraid that with his wealth House could gain alot of power within the NCR government. After all he would become a member by joining the NCR though statehood. But NCR could pass laws on how much money can be spent or donated during a campaign, but that would be hard to keep track of.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:31 pm

At some point if House wins, he would have to agree to join the NCR. Like you said the NCR will come back and they would come back in even greater force. Still the two sides can get along and have much in common. House just wants to run his business which is controlling the Strip. NCR just wants the taxes.

I don't get why NCR hasn't just cut House a deal. Let House run The Strip, (hell he could run Freeside and Westside as well) in exchange, House pays a tax to the NCR and follows the laws of the NCR. This would not bother House because in the end his biggest customer for tech and gambling would be the NCR. He would make billions! House's area becomes a state (a very small one) within the NCR. Both would gain alot from such a deal. NCR would control the rest of the Mojave.

The only reason I can think of for NCR not doing such a deal already, is they would be afraid that with his wealth House could gain alot of power within the NCR government. After all he would become a member by joining the NCR though statehood. But NCR could pass laws on how much money can be spent or donated during a campaign, but that would be hard to keep track of.

Honestly, I'd love it, however, my thing is, I think House wants to run Vegas in a way that he knows is best. He DOES know what's best, but if the NCR barons dont like it, they could impede his progress. It's why I support an independant (for now at least) House run citystate. House and NCR are very parallel to each other. The problem is, I think alot of Shady Sands has gotten so cushioned that it almost has a Vault City attitude. The soldier of NCR wants to shape a better world, the politician of NCR wants to find someone to make a bigger cap wallet for them. Plus, I think it's a control issue. If House was annexed, he'd be No.2 in a democratic nation, and it'd possibly be a BoS vs NCR all over again, or at the least, a succession from NCR. Over all, you're right, I'd love to see that, but I guess it's a match of NCR greedy politicians vs House's goals.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:18 am

The NCR is the best society for regular people. If you want a job in safety as a farmer, solider, rancher, miner, or any other low skill jobs you can have it safely inside their borders. Come from a poor family or [censored] neighborhood then you can join the army and apply your survival skills, get paid and explore the world. Under all the other factions (except maybe Indepedent) that's just not the case. Under House a lack of governance, high taxes, and no democracy are turn offs. People will say under the NCR the rich have the largest say but that's how every society has always an elite who has the most influence. People tend to forget that while the rich have hogged troops for domestic raiders..that also means less raiders in the NCR...

As far as the Legion goes...that's just balls to the wall [censored] totalitarianism and for what? The legacy of a puesdo-intellectual role playing despot that likes to wear a dress.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:45 pm

Honestly, I'd love it, however, my thing is, I think House wants to run Vegas in a way that he knows is best. He DOES know what's best, but if the NCR barons dont like it, they could impede his progress. It's why I support an independant (for now at least) House run citystate. House and NCR are very parallel to each other. The problem is, I think alot of Shady Sands has gotten so cushioned that it almost has a Vault City attitude. The soldier of NCR wants to shape a better world, the politician of NCR wants to find someone to make a bigger cap wallet for them. Plus, I think it's a control issue. If House was annexed, he'd be No.2 in a democratic nation, and it'd possibly be a BoS vs NCR all over again, or at the least, a succession from NCR. Over all, you're right, I'd love to see that, but I guess it's a match of NCR greedy politicians vs House's goals.

I am not sure its greed that keeps NCR from letting House join the NCR as a state as in autonomous body but does in the end answer to the higher power that be, NCR. Its that Mr.House is a very wealthy man and letting him run Vegas will make him even wealthier. If NCR let him be the first governor of "The State of Vegas" means Mr.House's power will grow exponentially. If people think Brahman Barrons have far to much power over NCR politicians.. House would make them look like total noobs with the money he would be able to through around.

Hell Mr.House over time could start opening up factories all over the NCR. That would be great, because it give employment to NCR and great wealth.. But this also means more power for Mr.House. He would have a iron grip on all levels of NCR government.

Not to mention, thanks to his machines.. He's immortal and is iron grip would never go away.

So IMO it isn't greed, its fear that keeps NCR from accepting House's rule over the city of New Vegas. NCR could let him be his own country, but then they would have no right to tax him. If anything House could put a trade tax on them, making him even wealthier.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:51 am

He owned the Lucky 38, thats it.
He has no right to any other part of it.

House can offer a speech to fufill his ego, His attitude to the kings and primm for accepting NCR help proves he is no leader.

He saved New Vegas. He is the reason so many find shelter there, he is the reason so many factions wish to conquer it.
Vegas pretty much belongs to House. He was building it in pre-war times, he saved it, and he has been rebuilding it in post-war times.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:18 am

I was reading some of the earlier post, the problem is Mr.House cut off all communication with the NCR after the treaty. If he had taken a diplomatic approach they could of worked out an annexation agreement that let House keep control both social, militarstic and economic of Vegas. But instead he ignored them and made the options for the NCR this.

A. Annex Vegas once the Legion threat is finished
B. Bend over and let House screw them over electric prices and water

House doesn't want the strip the most, he wants the Dam.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:52 pm

I picked the NCR. Pragmatically they are a mixed choice. On the one hand they do good for the Mojave (bringing law, opening trade routes, killing Fiends) On the other hand, they are not so great at implimenting their tactics in the Mojave (limited troops, mostly untrained, lots of problems with internal securtiy)

In the end I picked them becuase the are the least of several evils. House is working for House, and anything he does, it will be for the benifit for New Vegas only. Independant New Vegas is basically just anarchy, which is rarely an improvement, even when compared with some really tyranical governments. And the Legion promotes slavery, has zero equality towards women, and doesn't appear to have any form of science or art.

All in all, the NCR is by no means perfect, but they have some halfway decent intentions and I'd rather be an incompitent idealist than a pragmatic success.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:48 pm

Independant New Vegas is basically just anarchy,

No its not. Sure its difficult for a while but once everything is worked out New Vegas under House is as safe as under the NCR or the Legion.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:48 am

No its not. Sure its difficult for a while but once everything is worked out New Vegas under House is as safe as under the NCR or the Legion.

With The Yes Man doing his thing, what's left to govern is left up to debate. The courier would most likely become the new ruler of Vegas, and what he/she decides to do with this new power (if anything at all) is uncertain. Anarchy is a hyperbole, though not by much IMO. IF the Kings could be put in charge of New Vegas, they might be a better solution for Vegas (though how they would manage things oustide of Vegas is uncertain) however, they are a gang, and they do not offer their protection freely. They also respond to situaitons with violence more than diplomacy (as long as Pacer is still around that is unlikely to change)

I would agree that there would be some level of safety, but as far as production and industry, I doubt an independant Vegas could beat out the NCR or Mr House. And the Legion offers, by far, the most security from those outside their organizaiton.

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:21 pm

With The Yes Man doing his thing, what's left to govern is left up to debate. The courier would most likely become the new ruler of Vegas, and what he/she decides to do with this new power (if anything at all) is uncertain. Anarchy is a hyperbole, though not by much IMO. IF the Kings could be put in charge of New Vegas, they might be a better solution for Vegas (though how they would manage things oustide of Vegas is uncertain) however, they are a gang, and they do not offer their protection freely. They also respond to situaitons with violence more than diplomacy (as long as Pacer is still around that is unlikely to change)

I would agree that there would be some level of safety, but as far as production and industry, I doubt an independant Vegas could beat out the NCR or Mr House. And the Legion offers, by far, the most security from those outside their organizaiton.

By Independant I was talking about House.

And governments don't protect freely either, its called taxes. So does that mean governments are just giant gangs in the biggest turf war ever? :rofl:

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:58 pm

By Independant I was talking about House.

And governments don't protect freely either, its called taxes. So does that mean governments are just giant gangs in the biggest turf war ever? :rofl:

Ah, My mistake.

Actually, the entire ideal behind any governing body, is letting go of freedoms to garner protection. If you define a gang as a group that offers protection at a price, then yes they have similar aspects to them. However the vast majority of governments offer other services as well (medical care, education, etc.)

» Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:49 am

The Legion
Me: "but only if I'm not a women or dont have any birth defects right?"

I joined Legion as women both times, one had Four Eyes as a trait. :mellow: