How is the NCR any better?

Those who have power suceed while those without lose everything to Brahmin Barons.

Lanius is not a physchopath, anyone who has played a Legion playthrough would realize that.

What a charming bunch .

Of course he wants power. Not for power's sake, no. Caesar sees the similarities between the old Roman Empire and the post-war Wasteland and believes in stability over all else.

The NCR, meanwhile, try to grab every piece of land and tax every wastelander they can get their hands on whilst doing their best to provide [censored] all protection to the settlements the already control.

I find it quite amazing how people can bend and distort the fact to support their own little theories in this thread..

Lanius was not a psycopath? Thats why he goes mad and kills his own tribe, his own men.. thats why when you find him he's laughing while chopping ncr troopers apart...

My god, this thread is so full of people bending and twisting things to suit their own view its unreal..

And Gabriel?! The people who made the GAME didn't really know what they were doing because what they MADE doesn't fit with what you want? REALLY??

I'm not going to repeat my views on the legion, if you want to see what they really are, read back a few pages.

Edit: Or perhaps not, seems like the rather in-depth discussion where I destroyed the legion argument has been removed? Awesome...

There are quite a few stories of Lanius' origins, but none of them are confirmed canon yet.



Lanius' a special fella with some slight unresolved anger issues.

1. Bending whats in the game to your own agenda again? Lanius origins in NV all pretty much say the EXACT same thing. He's a hokerr, a grade A window licker.

2. See #1

Lanius is no doubt a ruthless and dangerous man, but he is also intelligent and quite noble. This can be seen even if you do not do a Legion playthrough.

And as for bending canon, Lanius' origins are not certain. Lucius says he was a Legionairre by twelve. Caesar also says that Lanius' face was ripped off, however killing Lanius and removing his helmet reveals otherwise. So either Obsidian messed up or his background is supposed to be ambiguous.

Right which goes back to the start of this. The Legion does kill and/or enslave towns regardless of whether or not the towns cooperate with them if it's in their interests to do so.



How does it show their loyalty? I don't recall any of the Omertas expressing support for Caesar's ideals or the Legion. They're cooperating with the Legion out of self-interest just as Nipton was.



Agreed but I think their intention in this case was to make it pretty clear that Caesar leaves the Strip intact. If they had intended for him to burn down Gomorrah and kill everyone inside I think it might've been mentioned. Also the ending slide only refers to the Strip specifically so your other examples aren't really contradictory to what it says.



Eh the argument will keep until later if you really want to continue it. I used to pull 24 hours shift on a fairly regular basis and I certainly wouldn't have been up to debating minutiae over the Internet at the end of one.



They certainly could've been more specific. But I don't think there's any way to interpret Caesar's Triumph as encompassing wiping out one of the most significant factions on the Strip.

[edit]



Is it? We've been arguing at cross purposes then. Probably my fault. I've been going off the initial statement that the Legion doesn't kill/enslave towns that cooperate with them and didn't notice you switched your opinion.

1.) No, but unlike you I've actually played the game and know that there are many stories of Lanius' origins, but none of them are actually confirmed real yet. Some of them say that he's been a legionnaire his entire life, some say he's from a conquered tribe. That you'd know if you've played the game.

2.) I was just joking, you need to chill out.

Heh, fair enough. I'm actually just a little annoyed that my 'fairly valid' points from earlier have been erased. My bad.

I find it amazing that people who havn't even played a certain playthrough can say that they know every little fact that is only showed if they play that certain way at least once, which you apparantly did not do.

People who make stories retcon things often, contradict things, or completely ignore others; Take Star Wars for an example.

I've played every single ending thanks Did you have something in particular in mind that I'd missed/ignored?

That they are.


I'm sorry, this discussion has been a mess for me since I'm so tired.
When did I say this?
If it's about the ending slider and Omerta; All I'm saying is that developers "can" happen to overlook things which might not be able to get fixed once the game is released.


1. Yes. All I'm saying is that Nipton isn't what they do to every town. Primm for example has good rest stop location for trade, resupply and hotel so Legion in one ending takes control over it without killing or enslaving anyone.

2. Well that was my take on the situation with Omerta/Legion alliance. I find them to show some form of loyalty to Caesar, maybe out of self interest, maybe it's minor, but a form of loyalty non the less.
They could have gone Van Graffs and allied with NCR instead, or maybe even helped House, but nope, they chose Legion.

3. Actually:

4. Well we don't need an ending slider for every Ranger Station but I do think that there should have been more sliders, especially for westside, northern square and all casino's.

5. Well I don't think I switched my opinion but "Legion doesn't kill/enslave towns that cooperate with them", it's like you said, it's about what is in their best interest. But for example:



That is what I meant about the cooperation thingie.
If you live in a town that is at least relatively prosperous then if Legion comes by and everyone accepts them then I wouldn't be too worried about getting killed or enslaved in that town.
I wouldn't talk back to or bump into any legionnaire though.

You must not have paid attention then, it is completely obvious that Lanius isn't what everyone makes him out to be and is not a "Pyschopath".

Evidence? Everything I have seen of Lanius has lead me to believe he is nothing more than a cold-blooded war machine. Most definitely not someone who could hold the Legion together once Caesar dies. Even more sure that he wouldn't lead them into some kind of glorious civilisation that some seem to believe he is capable of.

He is a cold blooded war machine but he's still not a psychopath.
He's just a ruthless yet successful military commander.

He kills his own tribe, he kills his own men. And when you meet him in his hut, he's having a good time cutting the heads off of some ncr's... Seems pretty psycho to me..

Edit: This truly is a pointless discussion. The Legion fanbase seems to just twist all of the ingame evidence into fitting with their theories, even the obvious negatives..

I'm done here.

Exactly further more Ceaser said himself all Lanius cares about is CEASER not the legion. So if Ceaser died he would probably go on a killing rampage on all the legion. But if that didnt happen he would bring the legion down with his terrible command and orders.

You must be trolling, cuz I've already told you that the whole tribe story is not canon.

I'm not gonna skew anything to support my views, I go by lore and in-game observation and THAT'S IT.





Guess what?.... Didn't happen.

1. Cause they were cowards who had no honor in combat, weaklings who just gave up instead of honoring their tribe by fighting. Different cultures have different views on "normality".
2. In order to strike fear into the rest that if you mess up you will die. It will make them work harder to achieve their goals, failure is not an option.
3. He was probably done interrogating them and didn't need them anymore. Hell, I think they'd be happier being decapitated than starving to death on a cross.

[edit]

Ace Hanlon: "So if Ceaser died he would probably go on a killing rampage on all the legion. "
Wrong:


[edit]

On that note: Mr Doom: "If you let Lanius take over he doesn't become Caesar.. Caesar isn't even referred to ingame as a rank, it's simply the name taken..."

Killing his own men, decimation, is a Roman military tradition.

Ugh...

Caesar himself tells us that Lanius cares NOT for the Legion. He kills his own men, not out of tradition/motivation, he kills them simply because he *enjoys* killing..

Another twist..

Proof?

Everything I say, I can back up, you however, I doubt.

Play the game, go ask Caesar about Lanius.

As far as backing up what you say lol?? You seem to enjoy picking and choosing what happened in FONV as long as it support your own ideas..

"You must be trolling, cuz I've already told you that the whole tribe story is not canon. "

Yeah, thanks for clearing up for me what is and isn't canon... :rolleyes:

Have you talked to Lanius? Caesar was obviously mistaken, or perhaps it was a blunder on Obsidian's part, but Lanius does care for his Legionaries. He talks about how he is frustrated with the pointless bloodshed of the Legionaries and that he would refuse to continue the assault on the Dam if it resulted in death of his army.