My view on character creation in Oblivion vs Skyrim is that in Oblivion, your characters started out very different from each other and remained different unless you leveled every minor skill to 100. In Skyrim all characters start out the same and only start to feel different after 15 or 20 levels. That was done intentionally by Bethesda but a lot of folks don't like it because they want to feel unique from the beginning.

Also, there are not enough unique and interesting perks to really make that many useful combinations of good character builds. I have five characters in Skyrim right now (2H warrior, pure mage, thief/assassin, 1H nightblade and archer) and many of them are using a lot of the same perks. I doubt I will make very many more characters in Skyrim because there is just not enough variety in the perks to make more than a handful of different builds. Most of the builds that people in the Skyrim are posting right now look pretty similar to one of my five builds. A few different perks here and there do not make that much of a difference to the overall character.

Contrast that with Oblivion where I have 15 or 20 different characters going and they are all different. I have three high elf pure mages in Oblivion, one with the Atronach birthsign, one with the Apprentice and one with the Mage.

Remember, they did not just get rid of classes and attributes in Skyrim. They also got rid of birthsigns. The stones they replaced birthsigns with mean that you can switch from Apprentice to Atronach at the drop of a hat. In Oblivion, you could base your entire character build around your birthsign. Can't do that in Skyrim.

On the whole, I preferred Oblivion's character creation system, although it was not perfect and I certainly do not enjoy efficient leveling. I do like both games and play Skyrim on weekends and Oblivion during the week.

I never stopped playing Oblivion. It was my first TES and I always thought it was a great game. I have since played Morrowind too and there are some things I like better about Morrowind.

Seems like Bethesda always does things that I don't like in their games, but they are the only ones who give you true open world exploring, so I always play their games and try to overlook the flaws cause no one else delivers what Bethesda provides.

Turija, you made some interesting observations about character creation. I wanted to add something; the choices we used to have in Oblivion gave us more variation as the game progressed. Its really very simple-more choices equals more unpredictable gameplay, or more possibilities. I agree with you about Skyrim starting with people having about the same hero, but rather disagree about that changing much with level 20, as you suggested. Some of the perks are pretty neat, i agree. But I still felt like a Nord, regardless what I played, and at the end I was a nord with a bow, a nord with a sword, a nord with a spell. And by the time one maxed everything in Oblivion there may be a lot of similarity to each other's hero, but ah, it was the getting there that was unique.

It's really interesting how perceptions of a game change over the years. I often wonder if people nowadays are talking about the same game that people talked about not too many years ago.

One of the most common criticisms of Oblivion (and Morrowind) has always been that characters in Oblivion too often begin a game at level 1 nicely differentiated but tend to become identical jack-of-all-trades characters by level 50. Once skills and attributes reach 100 a mage is likely to be not just proficient in magic but also able to wield a battle axe like a Barbarian, sneak and lockpick like a Rogue and fire an arrow with the accuracy of an Arcane Archer.

I have vowed to stop making references to Skyrim in this forum because it seems to make some people mad. So I will confine myself to saying that my experience of Skyrim is the mirror-image, diametric opposite of the previous posters. Without mods and a special effort on my part my high-level Skyrim characters have all become much more different from each other as they leveled; without mods and a special effort on my part my Oblivion characters have all become increasingly similar. Now I'm done talking about that game here forever.

All of which illuminates an interesting phenomenon, one that I have not seen in any other game. Over the years I have tended more and more to see the Elder Scrolls series as a kind of Rorschach, a test that reveals as much about the player as the game being played. One player sees Cyrodiil as bland; another player sees it as peaceful; one player views the pvssyr between NPC as poor coding; another finds it humorous. As an amateur student of human nature, reading the Bethesda forums has been enlightening and entertaining.

I still can't believe how many hours I put into that game lol

As 3PO says - "Sometimes I don′t understand human behavior"


Take a look http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1183763-how-many-hours-on-a-single-character/page__fromsearch__1 if you want to crunch the numbers

Well, that is only true if you level all your minor skills to 100. If you roleplay and don't use the minor skills that don't fit in with the role you are playing, then your characters will stay nicely diferentiated forever. The mage I have got going right now, for instance, never uses lock picks. If the lock is too high for his current Alteration skill level, he either uses the once a day power he got from the stone or he just does not open the lock. He will be an uber powerful mage some day but he will never be a jack of all trades. It takes work to become a jack of all trades because leveling all those minor skills takes time and effort. Minor skills go up slower than major skills and minor skills outside your chosen specialization go up really slow.

I played it for the first time a few days ago, and realized how much better it is than Skyrim, I do like the newest addition to the series, but Oblivion has countless features that are better. Just to name a few:
Spell making, more armor, more weapons, more unique artifacts, more towns, guilds are longer. The list goes on

It′s a rich game indeed. Prepare to stick around

Yes, this is it exactly. When I build a character, there are a specific set of skills which are appropriate to the character, and a set which are inappropriate. Even within "types," they never turn out the same. For example, my current character, Kara Whey, is a Destruction-oriented mage. She uses a bit of Restoration, a bit of Illusion, and a bit of Alchemy, so those skills would eventually max out. But she uses no Conjuration, almost no Alteration, and almost no Mysticism. She uses no weapons at all, and no armor. No Armorer.

A recent character, Desdaemone, was primarily a Conjurer. She used no Destruction, no Restoration, no Illusion.

Those two characters started out different, and they got even more different as they advanced, because they had to rely on completely different strategies.

Even funnier how Morrowind got slammed for being "mainstreamed" compared to Daggerfall. Each game has gotten "shinier", but shallower. It's kind of nice that you can keep going back until you find your "level" of RPG versus FPS.

Here's how I put it.

Skyrim was decorated with love (so many subtle stories told without using a word), Oblivion was written with love, and Morrowind was created with love.

I regret to inform you that you are wrong. Morrowind fans teach us that Oblivion is bland and boring with a generic setting and shallow main quest, and Morrowind is by far superior.

Just sayin'

Wow, I like this statement. I don't agree 100% but I see where you're comin' from.

Fe fi fo foll, I sense a forum troll

But yeah like we have concluded, this phenomena happens whenever a new game comes out. And it will happen again and again and again. And again

Wrong? For stating my opinion? I have played Morrowind and must admit that some things are better, but it is not superior to all other Elder Scrolls games. People have opinions on which game is better, and not everyone shares your opinion. Just accept what people think and respect their opinion...

Actually, when Skyrim was announced I was really, REALLY excited. "my favorite series having another game? SWEET!" I didn't critique much because of how things were in OB, which were perfect for me (well, almost...). Hell, I even argued against the critics. Then the game came out, I played it for a month, thought it was the best thing ever. Played it another month and then sold it.
And quite frankly, I still can't believe it.
Morrowind lasted me for about 6 months, but that's because by the time I had it I couldn't even speak proper english, let alone understand anything about the system. But in the end I still liked it.
Oblivion, to me, was near perfect. I played the game for about 3 years, and only sold it to get Skyrim. I wasn't even tired of it, I was just under the "new game" craze...
Skyrim didn't even last 2 full months. Hell, even with the increase in randomly-generated content, it felt bland and empty. Now don't get me wrong, the ambiance was stunningly well done, but that's the only thing that truely shines in it.

There were basically no uniques, except for the daedric artifacts and the very few other uniques which are simply THE SAME IRON WEAPON with a different name, and not even a different texture.
The dungeons might have the right "feel" about them, they really feel like only a pathetic excuse for "here, there are 15 enemies between you and the exit. oh, the object you seek is RIGHT in front of the exit". I much preferred Oblivion's DESIGNS, as in, dungeons being more maze-like.
Elves, yes, ELVES! What the hell!!! I mean, I know there's some specific lore about their aesthetics, but holy [censored] AT LEAST give me a way to make them look good. High elves look like they're eating their cheeks from the inside, and that, even if you make them bulky as bulls. Doesn't help that human races have around 30 eye colors, but elves only get like 5, out of which 3 are the same.
And the combat... I was expecting a DIFFERENT system, not just OB's one with a manual shield bash and dual weilding (basically a "I know TRUE dual weilding is all about timing, but we'll make this one an easy mode instead") is UTTERLY disappointing

Alright enough of me bashing Skyrim, let's just say it entertained me, but nothing more.

But yeah, Oblivion is STILL my favorite game in the series... no wait, my favorite game ever!



BTW Dragliza, I think spartan's comment was sarcasm...

He was kidding

Whoops sorry about not picking up on the sarcasm , I've been subjected to the "Morrowind Iz God!" people before, that's all

Yes, and now we're starting to get "Oblivion iz God!" people. Yep, I can't wait until six years from now when we're subjected to "Skyrim iz God!" people. I can see the thread title now: "Skyrim is the last Elder Scrolls with extended character build."

Gods, I really think I need to take a break from these forums.

Get up from your computer, take a deep breath and come back good as new

But yeah, I see this too when I look into my palantír.

Yep, the whole shift in mentality towards Oblivion has now taught me never to take this, whatever it's called... "hate on the new game" syndrome seriously.

Oblivion was the disgrace to the series before Skyrim, now it's changed to a well made TES game that Skyrim doesn't match up to. Gotta love teh haterz...

i mean the main quest was good, but not even the main quest OP, wait until you play the guild quests. you'll be awed at how much skyrim lacked.

Am I the only one who imagined the Guilds' questlines as movies?

This.

Skyrim is a new member of the family. I found Oblivion first and love it. I tried to play Morrowind and so far haven't gotten very far through it but only because the tech is older. I'm closing in on the MQ of Skyrim (not doing the civil war yet) and I'm having a blast. I keep saying that because it's true. If someone were to ask me about which was my favorite, I couldn't choose between Oblivion and Skyrim and won't. It's like a new member of the family and how could I love one less? They're different from each other and that's good. I don't need the same game twice. I'm going to keep that POV because it makes me happy and the more people who join in, the better. After all, it's about fun, pleasure, the joy of gaming. There's plenty of room for Fallout too.