Actually no it doesn't. I don't even see the logic in that. All it does is gimp 2H weapon and shield use before combat even starts, not to mention the added level of convolution just to cast utility spells in or out of combat.

I still haven't seen anyone actually provide confirmation that "no you can't heal while using a shield or 2H weapon" so I'll go ahead and assume that won't be the case. I don't believe Beth would put a system that bad into the game.

You're assuming that you'd have to open a menu to switch. They've said something about making it easier to switch between "loadouts."



So everyone's a weapon-user in your world. The new system gives more balance for pure mages and pure warriors, rather than optimizing for the battlemage style and leaving the other styles with unused buttons.

I guess some people are going to defend Bethesda's decisions no matter what. The fact is, this is a kick in the face to a lot of players who have played these games for years using a two hand/magic character. I've never played a game where I run around with one sword and the other hand free to cast spells, it looks silly.

If you agree with the decision, at the very least admit it's limiting a lot of players.

So only people who've played oblivion then.

Unequipping a two hander to cast magic is, in all practicality, exactly what you had to do in Morrowind.

It all comes down to choice. Not the choice to do everything, but to present the player with meaningful choices that have actual affects on gameplay. In Oblivion your choice of weapon rarely mattered. Most choices were superficial at best.

You still have choices. More than ever before, in fact. And these choices actually matter. You have the pure fighters (2handers, dual wielding, sword/shield), ranger types (bow (possibility of throwing weapons? Won't get my hopes up)), spellsword types (1h item, spell hand), pure mage (2 casting hands). In the past, the choice was mostly superficial. Most pure mages were still running around with melee weapons, fights were still throwing spells around, etc etc. Now you have to make a real choice, that will greatly affect your combat strategy. A choice isn't a choice if there is no resulting advantage or consequence.

You can still heal. Potions won't go away. You'll be fine. Think carefully about which method of attack you choose, because this time it actually matters.

I don't think anyone using two handed weapons a lot is going to use magic in the first place. When you pick high damage stuff like two handed weapons, you sacrifice defense and some high end abilities. That's the way it works. If you want to use magic don't use two handed weapons.

1. Get Azura's Star
2. Obtain a weapon with absorb health and soul trap enchantsments (or other similar sword)
3. ???
4. Forever healing.

1) "that's the way MW did it" is a terrible argument. There are reasons they changed it in the first place. MW's combat was terrible.

2) I like how all your listed combat types conveniently leave out all the options that would be excluded by limiting spell casting in the way being proposed.

3) Just because you say that in the past the choice was "mostly superficial" doesn't mean it was. I played both pure fighters and pure mages and hybrids in OB and thought the changes in styles was very appropriate

4) "Now you have real choice" isn't really going to be true. If magic is strong enough to be "required" (yes in quotes) 2H weapon and shield styles will hardly ever get played unless the advantages of using a 2H weapon or shield (should throw dual wielding in this discussion as well) are completely overpowering for the amount of flexibility you would be surrendering by giving up the ability to cast any sort of magic, not just healing spells. Which in effect would make magic "useless" (yes again in quotes) which will defeat the whole purpose of the system anyway. The only way to make the styles balanced is to make them work together not against each other. Otherwise you'll end up with only one "true" way to play.

5) This won't promote "thinking tactically" because with the perks system if you are going to use a 2H weapon or shield (assuming this locks out magic usage) you have absolutely no reason to bother training magic skills/perks. Your only real choice at that point is to tunnel vision that playstyle. Their would be no way to effectively make yourself a hybrid in the image of a Paladin/Crusader/Dark Knight type character. You've effectively killed those types of builds and any sort of trade offs or tactical play that is involved in dabbling in other areas

Like I said, I haven't seen any confirmation this is in fact "the" way it will work in Skyrim, and considering the tremendous drawbacks and faults in such a system I don't see it happening. I imagine "touch" and "target" type spells and/or of the hostile variety probably will lock you out of certain options in the way proposed, and I think that is more than fair. I don't think "self" cast or utility type spells will follow the same rules. It just doesn't make any sense.

I don't understand why people are still having trouble with this idea.

If you choose to use a 2-handed sword, you will not have the option of spells on the trigger buttons. This does not mean you cannot use magic - simply that they will not be in the 'quick' use positions...

Whether you believe this to be an 'artificial' strategic decision, it is still about tactics as Mytch was saying.

doing that to two daggers is way better, unless they have enchanments scale better on 2-handers

Not really. With Skyrim, it seems they are going in the direction that each choice of weapon handling you choose, it has it's advantages and disadvantages. The advantage to having a two handed weapon will most likely be you do massive damage and possibly something else to the detriment of having no healing. Everything requires a system of checks and balances.

On a side note, this system is NOT what was in MW so please, no one say that it's okay because it was in Morrowind as being in Morrowind definitely doesn't make something good and also, as I said, it wasn't in Morrowind.

It wasn't an arguement. I was replying to a person who stated he had been playing a 2hander mage for the past two games. I was pointing out then that he should be used to this kind of system as you had to switch out any time you wanted to cast in Morrowind as well.



It's not that terribly awful a system. Nothing is forcing you to tunnel vision short of an inability to adapt. Currently being able to cast spells during combat, I would say that 75% of my restoration spells are cast outside of combat, not within. As for perks, you haven't even seen perks yet. You can't possibly say that you have to throw all your perks into one 'category' in order to have an effective character. At times you might have to switch up and readjust to battle conditions. If you haven't done that before, then you must have more hotkey slots than I do. If they decide to include spell options or allow self spells that would be fine. I don't really see a reason to complain either way.

There was similar rage during the development of Oblivion when people realized that they were going to have to block actively and that they wouldn't so easily be able to hit people while blocking at the same time.

In the end, if you plan on used mixed combinations, expect to have mixed forms of combat. In gameplay, that's likely to be quite advantageous as the limits that apply to you also apply to your enemies, meaning that when someone pulls out a big sword on you, you know that they won't be casting any spells right away. Or when someone has one sword and a free hand out, you know they don't stand a chance of stopping your giant mace from coming down on them. As many tears are falling for the loss of 'freedom' there should be some smiles for the advantages you gain through versatility under such a system.

To be honest, they've undergone a heavy and lengthy combat change to make it more interesting and keep it from getting stale too quickly. We have very little information on it, and the source from which we had originally gotten this information is questionable at best. All the rage is really unnecessary. Frankly, the combat in Morrowind and Oblivion was boring and uneventful. I'm rather excited not only for the changes. I trust that BGS are capable of making smart decisions within their own games.

Ah yes, obviously the system is perfect the only problem is me, my inability to adapt since I am obviously a lesser player than you. :facepalm:




Yes, lets see how quickly this gets stale.

I am trekking across Skyrim and come across a rushing rapid. Oh, time to cast my water breathing spell. Unequip shield, unequip weapon, equip Waterbreathing spell, cast spell, unequip waterbreathing spell, equip shield, equip sword, swim across river. Keep walking, kill a few wolves, maybe a troll. ZOMG!! a dragon, time to run. Need my Fortify Speed spell. Unequip shield, unequip weapon, equip Fortify Speed spell, cast spell, unequip Fortify Speed spell, equip shield, equip sword, run to nearest cave. Gee, its awfully dark in here. Unequip shield, unequip weapon, equip Nighteye spell, cast spell, unequip Nighteye spell, equip shield, equip sword, start to sneak through cave. Come up on random bandit in cave. Unequip shield, unequip weapon, equip Shield spell, cast spell, unequip Shield spell, equip shield, equip sword, start to fight banidt. Uh oh, need to heal. Unequip shield, unequip weapon, equip Heal Self spell, cast spell, unequip Heal Self spell, equip shield, equip sword, continue fighting bandit.

I think you get the point......

I see absolutely no problem here.

I have to concur.

:facepalm: I don't know why I even bother.....

I'm hoping you can press buttons on the D-Pad to switch between loadouts. That would make this whole issue moot. Hotkey your 2-hander loadout and your healing-spell + 1h weapon loadout and switch between them at the touch of a button.

They confirmed "bookmarks" which will probably work that way on console.

Anything sounds boring when you write it like that. Take for instance, combat in the prior games: Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click, Left click. Sounds boring, but it's actually more entertaining than that.

But if I click on the lightwell how will I click on rend? Sorry first thing that came to mind.
But you could always hotkey some potions or something, you are not going to be able to swing a 2 hander around like paper and cast spells at everyone, it adds more depth to the combat, of which Oblivion lacked.

I don't really feel strongly about this, but the way I see it, a character that wants to deal a lot of damage and swiftly cast a lot of restoration magic is a battlemage, so the 1h/magic set-up is for him, while the pure two-hander is more of a brute warrior. Yes, this would mean that the two-hander spellcaster is out, but I'm sort of okay with that. As has been pointed out previously, I'm sure there will be well-thought-out ways for two-handers to get by just fine, such as the increased defense of heavy armor, potions, and related perks.

Frankly, limiting choice isn't a bad idea if it makes the game more interesting. Being dead set on playing a very specific character is probably a bad idea at this point -- just wait for the game/more info and give the various styles a chance. I really don't believe that a two-hander spellcaster is the only type of character that can be a good gaming experience for someone.

:lmao: wow...just wow..

Why do you unequip shield and sword to cast a spell? Just replace your shield with the spell you want and cast it from there. Also why do you even unequip something in the first place? Just equipping a new item will replace the old one.

"time to cast my water breathing spell. Unequip shield, unequip weapon, equip Waterbreathing spell, cast spell, unequip waterbreathing spell, equip shield, equip sword, swim across river." becomes
"Equip water breathing on left hand, cast spell in left hand, equip shield in left hand, cross river"

Thought i'd point out that Battlemages aren't known for using Claymores.

The evidence - http://www.gamebanshee.com/oblivion/classes/images/battlemage.jpg

Ah, sweet, delicious irony. The same people who brush aside the Morrowind players complaining about changes in Oblivion are now complaining about changes to their beloved Oblivion systems in Skyrim. LOVE IT. Especially since we haven't seen the new system in action yet AT ALL so everyone is talking out of their ass. Clue: Nobody has any idea how this system is going to actually feel while playing it. Everybody complaining about awkwardness or inconvenience needs to seriously stop, you are complaining about something you literally have no experience with yet. But hey, feel free not to let a little thing like the facts get in the way of your pointless bickering, you have to kill time some way I guess.