Hai! I'll try to keep this as short and to the point as I can. My question is, would it be possible for Orismer to breed with humans? Furthermore, is there any knowledge of this happening in the lore? I know quite a bit about the Elder Scrolls, and I know that some elven races are known to breed with humans (as in the case of Bretons), but I admittedly know nothing of this. Do you think that the orc's genetics would be considered too "corrupted" to breed with humans?

I ask this because, for Skyrim, I would like to create an orc with an appearance as close to a human as, well, humanly possible and then role-play her as a half-orc. She would of, of course, be referred to as an orc by most other races, which is fine, as she more or less is, and has tusks to boot, but she would clearly have a more "human-ish" appearance and attitude about her. Ultimately, it is my game and I can do whatever I please in my game but, I would like to stay as true to the lore as possible.

Are there any Elder Scrolls lore-masters out there with the knowledge of the ins-and-outs of Mer-Man breeding? Not, like, "mermen" but... you know. :blush:

Yes. All men and mer (Khajiit included under the "mer" title) can interbreed. It is unknown whether Argonians can with the other races. Sload cannot.

The only example that I know of is the Gray Prince, who is the son of a Vampire/Colovian Lord and his Orcish mistress.

The Orc Champion you fight in the Arena in Oblivion's father was a vampire Imperial (or man for sure) so yes, I'd say its safe to say they can indeed breed. Man and Mer races (but no beast races that we know of) can breed without issue, though the race of the child is generally decided by the mother.

Damn you Fiore, beat me too it

Maybe I jumped the gun on the Khajiit though? Come to think of it, I can't name a source where Khajiit and Man/mer interbreed. Though its been widely speculated that they are mer and closely related to the Bosmer.

I'm not sure on Khajiit's, I've never seen/heard anything about it but that doesn't mean its not out there, but as far as I know they can't.

I do believe Barenziah was warned that if she continued to... 'meet'... with Men and -Khajiit- she would find herself pregnant. I'll double check.

Edit: Yep. Taken from the The Real Barenziah.

"You mean promiscuous, although some do become prosttutes, I suppose. Elf women are promiscuous when they're young. You'll outgrow it. Perhaps you're beginning to already," Katisha said hopefully. "You ought to meet some nice elven boys, though. If you keep on keeping company with Khajiits and humans you'll find yourself pregnant soon."

Er, excuse me, i'll be in my bunk.

Oh, okay. Thank you, both!


I have heard this once before, that the race of the child takes after the mother. So, does that mean that the child's appearance would be entirely of that race as well? Or can there be mixed features? How do the Bretons, who clearly display both human and elvish features, fit into this? :confused:

One could write that off as fear mongering to prevent her from screwing around too much, as there are no recorded cases of such births.




For the sake of gameplay, they only take the race of the mother, but its been suggested in lore that its not 100% all the time like that. Tharn was a mix, as was Mankar (I think) and the Nibanese supposibly intermingled with the Akivir and traits can be see and are worn as a badge of honor as sorts, so in lore its not uncommon for traces of each to be prominent, but in the case of the game I doubt you will be able to have that level of customization.

As for bretons, several generations of consistent man/mer love.

Yes, I believe so. Agronak Gro Malog was the offspring of a vampire Imperial and a mortal orc. He's pale and grey compared to other orcs.

One could, but in my personal opinion that would be nitpicking since we already know that such unions can produce children, and there is also no source declaring it fear mongering. She wasn't trying to stop her having six, even suggesting she find a Mer, she was just concerned about the byproduct of mating with either a human of cat-man. If she had told her doing such things at all were a bad idea I may have agreed, but she just told her switching partners would be wise. Such as with a drunkard bosmer male. No step up 'morally' but safer if there was less chance of pregnancy.

True, but we've never seen or heard of any such children resulting in said unions, and theres no evidence other than him telling her she might end up pregnant to support that such a birth is indeed probably, let alone possible. See http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Notes_on_Racial_Phylogeny which actually contradicts what I said about no reports, but confirms about there being no official documents and casts biological doubts on the possibility. I would say the official documents would refer to things like census and birth records.

edit: Besides, who really wants to give birth to a kitten? their so damn needy and destroy all your good furniture with their tiny little claws. :glare:

Ouch! That was a good read, though, it even had a lot to say about intermingling with orcs and in fact mentioned that "some traces of the father's race may also be present." That is good to know!

As far as creating a hybrid race in the actual game, Skyrim, I think it can be done. My "half-orc" is supposed to be a blend of both races, man and orc, and, given the range and amount of character customization that Skyrim appears to have, I might be able to tweak the slider options to create my orc with a more "human" appearance. This would include features such as pinker skin tones, a less prominently curled nose, maybe smaller tusks, I'll have to wait and see what I can do. Although, some of the orismer screenshots released so far have looked totally different from each other while still retaining the base "orc look". So, I am hopeful - and possibly a little confident - that I would be able to fix up my character to how I want her to look like.

Now, as I've mentioned before, she would be referred to as an orc by NPCs, and would have many obvious orcish features, but that is okay. She is supposed to look like that, as a half-orc will still look like an orc, albeit with less pronounced features. At least, my variation of a half-orc would be... At any rate, to other races, she would still be considered an orc and hopefully orcs themselves would consider her one of them as well.

Who knows, maybe down the road from now, if I ever get into modding, I can try to make a "half-orc" mod with NPC reactions. I don't know where I'd get the extra voice-acting from but I may be able to do something to bypass that issue.

EDIT: That was a little off-topic, sorry. I don't think anyone would really care about that in the "lore section" of these forums. Aaanyway, I think the main question has been answered so far. Thanks, everyone!

Any races descended from the Elnofey can mix; common roots and whatnot. There are examples of most of these, and there is a boock i'll dig up from TIL to edit into this response later that basically says there is evidence for all the races besides the Argonians mixing with eachother, and the offspring – although they have mixed traits – tend to take after their mother. If your 'half-orc' is green, the chances are that its mom was green too.

Are you thinking of http://fastcache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/08/character2k_kotaku.jpg screenshot? When I look at the screen, I definitely think half-orc or orc-with-more-human-features. He's not even very green. I suspect you want to take this idea and press it to its limits then. If you do, please remember us and show us the results.

Really now? the only book I've been able to find was Notes on Racial Phylogeny which casts doubts on the ability to mix with Khajiits because their so different from man, I eagerly await to see what you dig up!

and defiantly show us when you get it done The Passage!

That was definitely my idea! You're very perceptive. I had originally gotten the inspiration when I saw the first orc screenshot, which looked like your classical, brutish orc, and then saw the second orc screenshot, the human looking "Al Bundy orc". Both of these look entirely different from the "grandpa orc" and the "demon orc", that was released today, Knuckleduster. With that kind of range in customization in mind, I thought I might be able to craft my own orc into something truly unique, via "half-orc".

As I've said, I'll see what I can do. I'm hoping to indeed push the limits of the creator for a more human-like appearance, hopefully without the aid of mods, but I will definitely let you see it come November. Provided you, and anyone else, are still interested in it by that time. :bowdown:

I was also referring to "Notes on Racial Phylogeny and Biology, Seventh Edition"

You're right, it does say that "Khajiit differ from humans and elves not only their skeletal and dermal physiology -- the "fur" that covers their bodies -- but their metabolism and digestion as well." but it also says that "...all "races" of elves and humans may mate with each other and bear fertile offspring." and Khajiit are quite close to bosmer; Ohmes are so close that they tattoo themselves to provide a clear distinction.