That does make sense. If you make a completely destructible world, somebody will eventually go ape [censored] and destroy everything in the game then come along complaining that Bethesda has ruined their game. A limited form of a destructible environment makes more sense, however, it would've been nice to see that support beam collapse on you, killing you in the process (or at least severely injuring you) . Choices and consequences right there.

Couldn't you just leave your dog there to guard it? He/she can't die you know...

I bet only superficially. Which gives me a great idea. If you can build your own structures, I bet you can make a pit. And I bet you can fill it with behemoths or deathclaws. I'm enjoying myself just thinking about it!

With how easy FO3 was i doubt that maintaining a settlement in any case will be that hard, and in my option this will allow for a radiant quest of sort after the main quest has ended, adding at least in a limited way "play value". Yes Bethesda might not be willing to allow for that level of mob griefing, but if they took anything from creepers in Minecraft (a source of inspiration) then such a mechanic will be included, and conveniently It fits perfectly in the game world and lore.

I don't exactly expect this to be in the game, but it would be nice, and I hope if it's not then modderers will take the reigns.

I imagine it'd play out like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWhbTRHOvwY.

that a confirmed fact now? when was that?

cool anyway

hey, the presentation didn't say you could breed behemoths =)

Yes, it was. In the original game, after the scene at the water plant, the game ended. (with you dead....) DLC changed that..... Broken Steel? I think.

You're assuming that ANYTHING actually happens outside cells currently loaded around you. Its why leaving a town in skyrim

before a combat starts with a dragon stops it from rauaging the population. The game doesn't run combat outside the area you are in. Its why using the wait function to make sure a NPC arrives home safely has been used going all the way back to oblivion.

aaaaah, that...

i took this as "is confirmed for fo4"

maaaaan.....

Valid point. So, the question then becomes, CAN something happen in a cell that is not loaded? I suspect so.... In skyrim, you would get notices that someone died, and you inherited a bit of gold. I think on only one occasion, did the person die while I was present. (the Orc lady you took a sword to..... When I went to deliver it, a dragon attacked, if I gave her the sword, she would fight, and die, if I waited, and fought the dragon instead, she would go and hide somewhere. Yeah, I died/reloaded a couple times on that one...)

anything of importance actually does keep happening.

it's called "persistence". all relevant npc's (and objects) are always treated by the engine, run their ai packs and all, even if their 3d's not loaded.

(that's just the part about the creation engine that the "oh so bad engine" faction doesn't seem to get)

yes. matter of fact. and it's the rule, not the exception.

The AI packages run, but nothing actually happens because they don't interact with one another unless you are present. The merchant caravans always pass that one Super Mutant camp in Fallout 3 but they won't be wiped out by it unless you're in the same cell. The engine only calculates where they should be in the event you arrive.

Perfect example in Fallout 3 getting Rory Maclaren out of Paradise Falls alive can be a bit of a pain. If you attack the raiders before releasing him from the Bo he'll be found dead. If you release him from the Box he'll be spotted and killed trying to sneak out. If you want him to live the easiest method is to tell him he's on his own then immediately wait an hour. Just like if you aren't there his AI package to tell him to go to megaton runs. But it doesn't interact with the slaver's AI to shoot and kill him. Packages run but they don't really interact with one another. Again its why one of the safest ways to make sure an NPC gets home safely is to either fast travel away or use the wait function.

A Skyrim example would be fast traveling away before a dragon or vampire begins attacking the town stops the attack from happening all together. So unless the results of the battle are pre-scripted. (who dies, whats stolen, whats damaged). Nothing will actually occur while you're gone. I suspect that's how it will work assuming random raider attacks can occur while you're gone at all.

wrong.

they're not wiped out

1) because raiders aren't relevant npc's, but creature spawns, and spawned creatures are not persistent and hence not treated when not loaded

2) because raiders faction relations to caravans are set so that they won't frag them or don't frag them unless they close in beneath their so called "aggro radius".

if you though, like, set 2 _persistent_ npc's that are enemies to travel to some remote cell you're not in and get there some time later, you'll find them dead (or one of them more likely), that's how it is.

I've never seen anything in any of Bethesda's games that indicated that NPCs were there in a vulnerable state when I wasn't.

If that's true, s7o, I'd say that is rather bad engine design. I don't think it's good that a settlement can be wiped out because the game rolled certain things when you had the audacity to not be there. Maybe if the AI wasn't so thick, but as is that just sounds like bad design.

the only problem with raiders being able take over your land is might become alittle annoying when have more than one town built todd said there quite a few places that you can build in the game

also how to make the choice to defend your town when you have like 5 built and 3 are under attack lol

well if you really think it's a bad thing for the game world (or what's relevant of it anyway) to actually "really exist" in a sense of always being there and doing what it does independent of your presence, i just don't know how to argue with that. myself, i certainly don't think so. quite the opposite actually: for me, it's the very principle of substance over bling at work.

...and just build a friggin' wall, where's the problem anyway... ,-)

What's funny is that I see it as poor showing off, or as you put it, bling. The idea that people will inexplicably be dead when a player arrives somewhere because they weren't there to stop something that they had no way of knowing was happening because the game was running systems that were irrelevant to the player an hour ago seems like trying to impress me by spinning lots of plates representing flashy gimmicks while ignoring the plates representing optimizing the game so that it doesn't lock up on me every hour or so.

That said, I've never seen anything that actually indicates that anybody is doing anything when I'm not there to see them. Could you elaborate on how it breaks down and the limits of their existence in other areas?

it's a zillion things that makes actors attack or not or die or not and what not, it's not just like, they don't like eachother, so they drop dead whenever they meet.

...and when you build a defenseless settlement right next to a raider hideout and go away, there'll likely be dead when you return. that's like it'd be in a "real" world, and that's what's the game trying to emulate. i just don't see the bling in this. (as opposed to, say, turning your head for a sec in some gta and have a completely different set of cars waiting at the traffic light)

https://github.com/xanderdunn/skaar/wiki/Understanding-Forms%2C-Object-References%2C-Reference-Aliases%2C-and-Persistence

http://www.creationkit.com/Persistence_%28Papyrus%29

It would be cool if you could do it to steal unique things from other settlements.

I'm thinking about building a settlement now just for this and see what happens. I always love to test the AI or mess around with it anyways.

I hope that they won't attack my settlement every 5 minutes so i don't get any pop ups of it.

I dont' know how they could take the settlement.

Their AI is to dumb they are all running through the same place and they are getting slaughtered