Can't see any sense about it : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:58 pm

If I'm right Akatosh is only a Imperial version of Alduin. That makes me wonder why he saved Tamriel during the Oblivion crisis if he is going to destroy it only 200 years later? Or in the other hand why he wants to destroy Tamriel now if he saved it before? I can't see any clear reason or connection between these - this question makes me to think that Akatosh/Alduin is even more mad than Sheogorath himself.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:29 pm

IIRC it has to do with some sort of inevitable cosmic cycle, like, it's his job or something.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:48 am

If I'm right Akatosh is only a Imperial version of Alduin. That makes me wonder why he saved Tamriel during the Oblivion crisis if he is going to destroy it only 200 years later? Or in the other hand why he wants to destroy Tamriel now if he saved it before? I can't see any clear reason or connection between these - this question makes me to think that Akatosh/Alduin is even more mad than Sheogorath himself.

That might be an interesting plotline. Wasn't Sheogorath "cured" at the end of Shivering Isles (I'm asking because I never played it). If so, I wonder if his Sheogorath-ness is simply spreading amongst the Tamrielic pantheon.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:02 pm

IIRC it has to do with some sort of inevitable cosmic cycle, like, it's his job or something.

If it's such a big thing there should be no chance for mortals to stop it. And it also sounds to be a very cheaply made reason.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:29 am

If it's such a big thing there should be no chance for mortals to stop it. And it also sounds to be a very cheaply made reason.

If there was no way we could stop it Skyrim would be a pretty lame game wouldn't it

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:53 pm

Alduin is an ASPECT of akatosh
Akatosh, Auri-El and Alduin are all different aspects of the same god
They exist separately from each other
Alduin is not Akatosh
Hope this confusing babble helps slightly

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:58 pm

If it's such a big thing there should be no chance for mortals to stop it. And it also sounds to be a very cheaply made reason.

All cycles can be broken, but not everyone can figure out how.

In Norse mythology, both the Humans and the Aesir couldn't figure out how to stop Ragnarok, yet they fought anyway.

In The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, it was prophesized that if the Royal bloodline was broken and the Amulet of Kings stolen, the gates of Oblivion would open and Tamriel would be forever engulfed in darkness. However, it was prevented.

I'm sure there's a way to stop Aludin, even if it kills you in the process. (Mass Effect 2)

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:38 pm

I'm sure there's a way to stop Aludin, even if it kills you in the process. (Mass Effect 2)

Yes, probably you have to absorb Alduin's soul and with it you gain the destiny of world eater, which you never conclude.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:14 pm

That might be an interesting plotline. Wasn't Sheogorath "cured" at the end of Shivering Isles (I'm asking because I never played it). If so, I wonder if his Sheogorath-ness is simply spreading amongst the Tamrielic pantheon.

No, Sheogorath didn't get "cured". The Champion of Cyrodiil, aka we, became Sheogorath

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:38 pm

I'm not an expert on the lore, but I've read up on some of it and checked out the lore forums. For a more detailed answer you should definitely post there, but I think they'll link you to a bunch of texts from the imperial library rather than give you a straight answer.

From what I know, the theory is that there The Elder Scrolls universe actually only has one god. And it is everything. In the beginning it was split into Anu and Padomay, which then devided into the Aedra and et'Ada, as well as the Daedra.

That link chronicles how Shor (the nordic Lorkhan) tricked Alduin (the nordic Akatosh/Auri'El) as well as the other Aedra into creating Nirn, which they were then bound to. It gets confusing, but you have to understand the nature of the god's. They're in large part shaped by the belief and worship in them. Akatosh, Auri'El, and Alduin all exist as the same being, but are separate from one another. I understand it as something similar to the the way the Trinity of Christianity is the same god but separate entities. It wasn't Alduin you saw at the end of Oblivion, it was Akatosh, who was in a sense born when the Alessian reformation caused the first dragon break -for the purposes of creating a time god more sympathetic to humans than the nordic Alduin or the Merish Auri'El-, and in another sense has always existed.

I guess a simple, but not entirely correct, way of putting it is that everything is an aspect of one Schizophrenic being, and that Akatosh and Alduin are different representatives of the same aspect.

Ugh, sorry if this post seems confusing, it's been a while since I read thoroughly through the lore and I'm kind of tired right now. You should probably post to the lore forums for better help , but I hope for now this at least makes it a little easier to understand.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:18 am

I'm not an expert on the lore, but I've read up on some of it and checked out the lore forums. For a more detailed answer you should definitely post there, but I think they'll link you to a bunch of texts from the imperial library rather than give you a straight answer.

From what I know, the theory is that there The Elder Scrolls universe actually only has one god. And it is everything. In the beginning it was split into Anu and Padomay, which then devided into the Aedra and et'Ada, as well as the Daedra.

That link chronicles how Shor (the nordic Lorkhan) tricked Alduin (the nordic Akatosh/Auri'El) as well as the other Aedra into creating Nirn, which they were then bound to. It gets confusing, but you have to understand the nature of the god's. They're in large part shaped by the belief and worship in them. Akatosh, Auri'El, and Alduin all exist as the same being, but are separate from one another. I understand it as something similar to the the way the Trinity of Christianity is the same god but separate entities. It wasn't Alduin you saw at the end of Oblivion, it was Akatosh, who was in a sense born when the Alessian reformation caused the first dragon break -for the purposes of creating a time god more sympathetic to humans than the nordic Alduin or the Merish Auri'El-, and in another sense has always existed.

I guess a simple, but not entirely correct, way of putting it is that everything is an aspect of one Schizophrenic being, and that Akatosh and Alduin are different representatives of the same aspect.

Ugh, sorry if this post seems confusing, it's been a while since I read thoroughly through the lore and I'm kind of tired right now. You should probably post to the lore forums for better help , but I hope for now this at least makes it a little easier to understand.

I think you've nailed it, and the Holy Trinity is a good example of the aspect-nature of some gods.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:08 am

I'm not an expert on the lore, but I've read up on some of it and checked out the lore forums. For a more detailed answer you should definitely post there, but I think they'll link you to a bunch of texts from the imperial library rather than give you a straight answer.

From what I know, the theory is that there The Elder Scrolls universe actually only has one god. And it is everything. In the beginning it was split into Anu and Padomay, which then devided into the Aedra and et'Ada, as well as the Daedra.

That link chronicles how Shor (the nordic Lorkhan) tricked Alduin (the nordic Akatosh/Auri'El) as well as the other Aedra into creating Nirn, which they were then bound to. It gets confusing, but you have to understand the nature of the god's. They're in large part shaped by the belief and worship in them. Akatosh, Auri'El, and Alduin all exist as the same being, but are separate from one another. I understand it as something similar to the the way the Trinity of Christianity is the same god but separate entities. It wasn't Alduin you saw at the end of Oblivion, it was Akatosh, who was in a sense born when the Alessian reformation caused the first dragon break -for the purposes of creating a time god more sympathetic to humans than the nordic Alduin or the Merish Auri'El-, and in another sense has always existed.

I guess a simple, but not entirely correct, way of putting it is that everything is an aspect of one Schizophrenic being, and that Akatosh and Alduin are different representatives of the same aspect.

Ugh, sorry if this post seems confusing, it's been a while since I read thoroughly through the lore and I'm kind of tired right now. You should probably post to the lore forums for better help , but I hope for now this at least makes it a little easier to understand.

Said better than my confusing babble, I'm certain

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:07 am

After this all knowledge I feel like the point and meaning of the games are spoiled. Because of that I will no longer think about the greater things about the Nirn. I'll just live on Mundus, fight with dragons and deal with the old nordic gods and daedric princes - that's all.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:02 am

Alduin is an ASPECT of akatosh
Akatosh, Auri-El and Alduin are all different aspects of the same god
They exist separately from each other
Alduin is not Akatosh
Hope this confusing babble helps slightly

Aye. An anology would be Christianity, "The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."

Kind of. Sort of.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:47 am

but as the game's religions are quite blatently built around a nordic paganism and eastern mysticism - the reality of the spiritual world is most likely this:

The deities who are playing out roles within the world consider Nirn to be a politically influencial artifact. To destroy it would symbolize similar things to destroying the crown jewels, and governing it would symbolize owning it. There are situations where a royal member may want to destroy the crown jewels.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:33 am

Alduin is an ASPECT of akatosh
Akatosh, Auri-El and Alduin are all different aspects of the same god
They exist separately from each other
Alduin is not Akatosh
Hope this confusing babble helps slightly

THIS!!!! OMFG PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW THIS!

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:59 am

On earth religions are fictional put togethers for humans to understand our own mundus when we want to ignore reality, in TES, the gods ARE real - so instead of being based on human values, the gods of TES are based on their own values. This means that beings on Nirn don't have 'beliefs' in the same way we do - separating the entire thing philosophically. But I know you were making alikeness to the pantheistic nature of the trinity, I'm just pointing out christianity is the worst religion to aliken to Nirn's religions.

The earthly religion with most in common with Nirn's religions are most like collectively is Hinduism as it's Pantheistic. This means that there are thousands upon thousands of gods and deities, but every one of them - and even every human and every single object is some aspect of the main original god who's name usually means something like void or timelessness. Nothing even remotely like christianity. If it was like christianity, I'd genuinely stop playing.

I thought this forum is for talking about the game and it's against the rules to talk about any of the religious or politics opinions of real life.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:05 am

I think you've nailed it, and the Holy Trinity is a good example of the aspect-nature of some gods.

You should better think of Trimurti: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimurti
Check here (post #122): http://imperial-library.info/ForumArchives/AmuletAmulet.html

2All:
Also, "The Mad GodHead Theory" should help. It was somewhere here on forums.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:56 am

I like to think of it as Auri-El/Akatosh/Alkosh/Alduin are all the same guy with a split personality disorder.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:30 pm

Also, "The Mad GodHead Theory" should help. It was somewhere here on forums.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/loveletter-fifth-era-true-purpose-tamriel

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:09 pm

I like to think of it as Auri-El/Akatosh/Alkosh/Alduin are all the same guy with a split personality disorder.

Yeah, this is the simplest explanation to me. A god with a split personality disorder. One Imperial side, one destruction (Eating of the World and all that) side and one Mer side. I wonder what interesting side effects stopping Alduin will have on Akatosh and Auri-El, if any. Maybe with one side weakened the two other sides will also be weaker?

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:10 pm

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/loveletter-fifth-era-true-purpose-tamriel

At some ancient times it was a theory. Then Jubal-Iun-Sul sent us a message and made us mad and joyful at the same time.
Maybe it is offtopic, but i want to ask about C0DA. How do you think it has to or may be translated?

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:56 pm

Maybe it is offtopic, but i want to ask about C0DA. How do you think it has to or may be translated?

The C0DA broke when Twice Vehk appeared again from Aether

I'm thinking Time or Dragon.

C0DA translation: if all previous gradients continue along this path, especially given that there is now a centerpoint, impossible Mundus, the process of continuation can be pre-figured.

Time sounds like a prefigured process of continuation.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:12 am

If I'm right Akatosh is only a Imperial version of Alduin. That makes me wonder why he saved Tamriel during the Oblivion crisis if he is going to destroy it only 200 years later? Or in the other hand why he wants to destroy Tamriel now if he saved it before? I can't see any clear reason or connection between these - this question makes me to think that Akatosh/Alduin is even more mad than Sheogorath himself.

Easy. He just had lunch. So if he didn't Dagon would take Mundus. Then he couldn't eat it 200 years later for dinner.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:06 pm

Alduin is an ASPECT of akatosh
Akatosh, Auri-El and Alduin are all different aspects of the same god
They exist separately from each other
Alduin is not Akatosh
Hope this confusing babble helps slightly

They are not the same. Except they are.

Crystal clear.