The problem with that is that past games DID force some things on you, they had to, in Oblivion, from the start, you're given the Amulet of Kings and told to take it to Jauffre, you can ignore that request, of course, and under the circumstances, one supposes you didn't have an oportunity to refuse, but you can't tell Baurus to take it to Weynon Priory for you either, nor can you go to Jauffre, give him the Amulet, and then say "[censored] Martin, I'm done working for you, you take the Amulet and find someone else to do your work for you." and then walk off. Or how about Morrowind? At the start, you're released from prison with directions to deliver a coded message to someone named Caius, you don't get any choice in this, you can't say you don't want to do it, though you can go and throw the message in a muck pond or something, but what's more important is that the REASON behind your release, it's because you appear to fulfill certain aspects of the Nerevarine prophescies, you don't know this at the start, of course, but just because you don't know it doesn't mean it's not true.

@br0ski - Grow up and leave the expletives out. Accept that RPing means "imagining" something that is not built into the gameplay. Or not. I don't care. I'm sincerely surprised you don't see that, though.

And if this helps at all, you should know I always RP, and I've written my own fan fics for TES. I just happen to know that I have to stay within the bounds of the rules of the TES universe when I do so. That's all I've been trying to say. :shrug:

could have fooled me I thought you were the one being defensive. since I don't have any POV that enters into this discusion I don't know what I am defending other than the OP's right to have an opinion. your the one who brought up the MQ you assumed that we would HAVE to play it at some point. no one here said that RP had to be unlimited, I am merely saying that if the OP wants to rp as something other than the dragon born he can. and you are some how telling me that is not true and we all have to play the game one way. I will contradict you every time you try to say I or any one else has to play the game a specific way.

none of that means some one isn't allowed to play the game as if wasn't true. in TES games the MQ is like its own game, if you ignore it then none of that lore applies to the character you are creating. it doesn't matter what any one elses opinion on that matter because they will be wrong. its as if you were to take a drawing a kid drew with blue crayon, the kid says its a dragon, but whats actually there is a blue blob. it may be a blue blob to every one elses perspective but to that kid its a dragon. so what right does any one have to say no, your wrong thats a blob and you aren't allowed to think it is any thing else.

Sorry but it ruffles my feathers when someone tells me that I'm completely missing the point when I'm not and never presumed to get your point nor did I comment on it, I was simply giving my opinion and then you try to downplay my opinion as nonsense by creating ridiculous examples to compare it to then completely ignores my point, apologies.
The only thing I commented on from you at first was that you were being condescending acting as though saying "too bad for you that's how it's gonna be" was a genuine excuse to not voice our concerns that we might be forced into a role which is a change from past games a detriment to roleplaying. I made no comment whatsoever concerning your views on the subject I merely posed a question which you didn't answer but replied with ridiculous comparison.

As for roleplay being "imagining" if I wanted to imagine things I'd do that and not play a video game, I understand you might have to but it's far from necessary. It's not "outside the bounds of TES" to not be a dragonborn. Honestly all I want is absorbing a dragons soul to be optional, it's not that much to ask.

I'm being defensive? You just stated you were repeatedly "defending" the OP and "contradicting" me. I'd say that's the defensive side. If anything, you seem to be posting like I'm attacking your human rights or something.



Oh mirglof, Idiscussion give you credit for your effort. But unfortunately contradicting me serves no purpose. Reason for that? I'm not stating an opinion. Unless you consider the rules of the TES universe as created by Bethesda to be an "opinion".

Hmmm, now that I think about it, you seem to think that way, actually. Your idea of RPing is basically modifying the story however you feel like so that it suits your fantasy. And as I've said before, you can do that 1000 times on 1000 characters for 5000 hours for all I care. It's what you want to do. No need to "contradict me" about it. Go ahead and use your imagination all you want.

You can imagine the dragons don't exist, but what will you say when you run into one in the wild? Is it just an illusion? That's what I don't get. You keep telling me you can basically RP any change you want into the game, even if it contradicts the actual gameplay. :confused:

The problem with that is that past games DID force some things on you, they had to, in Oblivion, from the start, you're given the Amulet of Kings and told to take it to Jauffre, you can ignore that request, of course, and under the circumstances, one supposes you didn't have an oportunity to refuse, but you can't tell Baurus to take it to Weynon Priory for you either, nor can you go to Jauffre, give him the Amulet, and then say "[censored] Martin, I'm done working for you, you take the Amulet and find someone else to do your work for you." and then walk off. Or how about Morrowind? At the start, you're released from prison with directions to deliver a coded message to someone named Caius, you don't get any choice in this, you can't say you don't want to do it, though you can go and throw the message in a muck pond or something, but what's more important is that the REASON behind your release, it's because you appear to fulfill certain aspects of the Nerevarine prophescies, you don't know this at the start, of course, but just because you don't know it doesn't mean it's not true, nor does it mean that it's not the reason Uriel Septim released you in Morrowind, you might claim your character actually isn't the Nerevarine but just someone who happens to fulfill a few aspects of the prophecy, but that doesn't really change much, you still get some details forced upon you, details which you have no choice in. Simply put, you never got to choose your character's destiny in Morrowind or Oblivion, at least as far as the main quest was concerned, you could just choose to ignore it, I see no difference here. Sometimes, a game NEEDS to force some things on you, because it's story requires it, the fact that the series uses freedom as a selling point doesn't change that, Bethesda may say "Be anything you want." but that's only because "Be whoever you want, within the limits of what the game allows." doesn't sound quite as impressive.

I could be wrong, but the issue here seems to be very simple.

Can you roleplay in Skyrim as if you were not the Dovahkin? Sure.

Is Bethesda going to change the game mechanics (or offer an alternative mechanic) for the small percentage of people who are not going to play as the Dovahkin? Probably not.

If you want to pretend that you're not the Dovahkin, go for it. But without a mod I doubt you are going to have the option to ignore a fundamental game mechanic.

[Edit: So, yeah... basically what Deity Matrix has been saying...]

I ask this because i am already planning of playing the mainquest as Dovahkiin, and have other characters that "roleplay" that isnt Dragonborn, and with those charaters, I want to kill dragons, but NOT learn their powers at all.

Well, anybody know something about this?

If you're concerned with RPing NOT being Dragonborn, then you'll have to find a way to shut out what's happening in a lot of the game. And as Selbeth so pointedly put in response to you above, there are many examples of how TES games force you into doing certain things. For instance, there is no way you can play Oblivion past the tutorial without having the Amulet of Kings in your possession. You could RP that you don't have it, but it would still be there sitting in your inventory. So, how do you account for that in your roleplay?

This is my main issue though. It appears that what (I think) should be reserved for the MQ which I also think should be optional is being forced onto the player. In morrowind or oblivion following the main quest was choosing to put you character in that role and I think it should stay that way in Skyrim so that the main quest can be ignored completely.

The examples selbeth provided were totally optional whether a choice was forced onto the player or not you didn't have to deal with those things and they never affected what your character was, while absorbing the soul of a dragon makes you dragonborn regardless. If there is a choice to do it or not then there isn't a problem for me. While it is quite simple to just ignore that you're absorbing a soul I just think that it is a change from past games that I do not like that my character is already predetermined to be something that I may not want.

This is my main issue though. It appears that what (I think) should be reserved for the MQ which I also think should be optional is being forced onto the player. In morrowind or oblivion following the main quest was choosing to put you character in that role and I think it should stay that way in Skyrim so that the main quest can be ignored completely.

The examples selbeth provided were totally optional whether a choice was forced onto the player or not you didn't have to deal with those things and they never affected what your character was, while absorbing the soul of a dragon makes you dragonborn regardless. If there is a choice to do it or not then there isn't a problem for me. While it is quite simple to just ignore that you're absorbing a soul I just think that it is a change from past games that I do not like that my character is already predetermined to be something that I may not want.

and it still is that way. nothing is forcing us to play the MQ, its already been said (by other posters) that the dragon shouts are recieved when reading some wall after killing and collecting a dragon soul. I am pretty sure the ability to role play something other than the role in the MQ like in MW and OB will still exist. having open ended worlds is something the devs have said plenty of times before was one of their objectives when making their games.

While I do agree that you could easily roleplay around many of the "forced" aspects of each TES, you can't roleplay through them.

is that the source of our disagreement? if so then I don't disagree with you as much. I never was meaning to say that you can RP:ignore being neverine or dragonborn while going through those aspects. but you can avoid them until they tie in with your RP story.

like how I handled the amulet of kings, I just RP'd it was simply a family heirloom and ignored the rest of the MQ. but I never RP'd that it was a family heirloom while going through the MQ which obviously would contradict that story. well I could but to any one other than me it would not make sense.

I think you just realized what I meant all along.

I can RP to not be Dragonborn, but it will be severly annoying when I do the MQ and have to absorb dragon souls and stop Alduin. How can I rationalize finishing a quest that tells me what I am, by pretending it doesn't, or that it's all lies? I can't, as far as I'm concerned.

Thus, I will not RP NOT being Dragonborn, because 1. I want to be 2. I will complete the MQ with each character. 3. I don't RP through the story Beth has written for me while I complete the quests they created.

I can still rp and do MQ's, but I don't presume my rp story will make sense to others. but then again I don't care.

well what mainly confused me is when before you simply said that it will be impossible to RP as any thing other than dragon born. I never saw you elaborate. I still disagree about some points but atleast your aren't actually telling me that I am playing the game wrong. it drives me into a frenzy when people do that.

I don't care much for the whole Dragonborn concept at all, so i'm just going to ignore that whole aspect of the game in general and pretend it's not there. When the Greybeards shout "Dovahkiin", I won't answer, because that's not what i'm calling my character. :rolleyes:

You know, eating a dragon's soul does not automatically give you a shout. You still have to go learn the relevant words in order to use it.

I think it's been stated that when everybody hung out with Todd when he was demoing the game, after he killed the dragon he had to walk up to it and press A to absord its soul.

So just don't do that if you kill a dragon.

Simple as that.