No one said there wont be spells that increase speed and jump. We already know of a shout that gives you a speed burst as well.

The almost limitless customization, strategy and RP potential spell creation allowed. Without it, nearly a third of my builds are gone. And Im not talking about anything OPed. SC was a cornerstone of the series. not only could you make great representations spells, but actual new effects.

That is so stupid. There goes roll-playing cat burglars and tri-athletes but I suppose we've already known that for a while now. Thanks, Bethesda! I just wuv you guys... :thumbsup:

Did you consider that one perk can have multiple levels? :icecream:

Yea, I'm going to miss being able to jump over entire towns like in Morrowind.

Yeah, fixed speed and jump heights ruins over a dozen builds for me.

Care to list some of those builds?

Acrobats, street performers, Illusionists, Martial arts masters, certain Vampires (since there's no levitation anymore), shepherds and athletes, the list goes on and I'm sure plenty have made builds around these mechanics that I haven't thought of. I hate losing builds. Marginalized H2H, no speed r jump variable and no spell creation, really hampers my build stable.

Spell creation build list is even more expansive. Inquisitors, Witch Doctors, Illusionists (dual needs), Druids, Cleric and Monks, Nagas, Street Performers, Maomer, Mediums, Psijic Order, All types of Vampire mayhem, Astrologists, Archaeologists, all types of Paladins and Crusaders, even used SC as a 'ability' mechanic that drained stamina, with 'moves' like Concentration and Bullseye, etc. and thats the tip of the iceberg, I could go for a while.

I feel like I could make most of those in Skyrim. Actually, the inclusion of things like crafting and cooking make some of those builds even more plausible to me.

Not without spell creation, or the aforementioned cut or marginalised mechanics. these types were viable in previous ES games, almost anyway you wanted to make them. Now they are not, effectively making previous ES titles superior in these regards. They wont be what they are. basically there was no reason not to have spell creation and jump/speed variables.

This. Although I believe it's only for some/a few perks. So it won't completely dilute the number per skill down. Some only have one rank while others have a few

Oh yeah, I was talking mostly about the first part. Spell creation does cut a lot of the other builds, although I think the new spell system adds some builds of its own. And you can alter speed: wear lighter equipment and invest in stamina. There might be other ways to alter it as well.

How can you make an acrobat, or a martial artist, or even a Vamp for that matter if you cant jump high (high), or run/move really fast? http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Realizations_of_Acrobacy

Then again, I dont really believe that speed and jump height is as static as its been mentioned. Vsicions (sp?) said that they had to take into account people that want to jump over buildings, from roof to roof etc.

Well It doesn't bother me But regarding the whole speed thing, I'm guessing that they made it the same in general for everyone so they could use the havok animation system to maximum effect and make it look really good (which I think is great) so that should get rid of the super fast "Gliding" across land to get to places and the hovering in air when you jump in oblivion.

So all in all I'm still perfectly happy about these changes. :foodndrink:

Yeah that's the thing, have they actually said that jumping is static? Obviously there's no acrobatics skill, but there might be other factors involved. I think someone asked Pete on twitter about it, but I don't remember the response. At any rate, I meant the number of builds should about balance out: let's say, possibly hypothetically, that jump speed is completely static. But then there's the inclusion of something like dual wielding, which adds plenty more builds, or at least adds depth to current builds. Not saying they couldn't have included both, but I don't think the number of choices is much lower. And if it is, the choices that remain have more depth.

The bold is the problem. Most of these features in n Sky will expands and further define builds, but not create new ones, like certain mechanics can, like the ones mentioned above. Im sure that there will be some builds available that werent in previous games. Librettists, cobblers, bards and minstrels etc. But the builds built around these mechanics shouldnt be lost. It makes previous games superior in these regards. I like additions, but i dont want to lose in some sort of compromise. The only real compromise Im seeing is hardware limitations due to the graphics they want. I already know its not about OPed stuff or whatever, since Beth already said they wont patch or fix "fun" mechanics and exploits/cheats etc.

OK, I can agree with most of that, at least objectively. I still think Skyrim has the potential to be the best in the series for me since I never cared about most of the things they removed, so my few disappointments had to do with what they didn't add to the game rather than what they omitted.

Maybe bethesda looked and found out that the people who used those cut features were really a small percentage of total fanbase and decided to cut them to focus on other things. But i still miss my medium armor

What is the point of an Acrobatics skill if you can't jump super high? Why wouldn't my Wood Elf be able to run fast and jump high!? That's incredibly stupid ... Nords can't jump like Wood Elves ...

So you lose over a third of your builds due to no spell-making and a dozen because you can't run faster and jump higher?

How many builds do you have, exactly?

best comment in the thread. noones got to use the new spell system so we cant say that the loss is greater than the gain.

I don't think they have Acrobatics in the game anymore...

Did I just ruin Christmas?

Hundreds. Dozens of each race, all types of "classes"/professions etc. through all types of playthroughs. The big three, multiples of the big three, most of their derivatives, I try to think out of the box after those are done.

Xarnac, your such a chunky chinchilla.

Your vampire build will be much more bad ass in skyrim, I absolutely promise you. He will run, jump, burn, slice and take the life out of anything he touches. Beth's got your back even if you don't got thiers.

Here, have a cup of tea and wipe your nose, it's starting to bleed a bit.

edit: I added a smiley to cheer you up. :biggrin:

Ilero doesnt burn, slice, or even run much anymore. He gets everyone into a euphoric orgy then telepathically eats them. He sends the town guard into a frenzy while feasting on Countesses. He charms an entire Castle while sending the occupants into a Skooma like speed fit. A lot of this will not be possible without certain mechanics. That's only one build. Hopefully something like this is still there.