'Kin' as in vampire kin, not as in clan.
No reference to vampire clans are made in Skyrim at all, so by inference its unlikely that they are talking about that.

So rather, evading the Volkihar, can we just gather as much information on the vampires in general as possible for the OP?

Just end the conversation please lol.

We're never gonna back down from believing their Volkihar and you're never gonna believe they are Volkihar.

Everything we say is responded with there is no evidence when to us, it's evidence enough.

None the less, we can RP it the way we want at least seeing how Bethesda hasn't bothered to come in and make an official statement.

I still find it stupid to be using the name in several places only to not have them being directly related to that name but whatever, neither of our sides are gonna budge on this lol.



So rather, evading the Volkihar, can we just gather as much information on the vampires in general as possible for the OP?

You can roleplay however you want but I get annoyed when people claim it to be a 100% fact and go so far as to add it to fansites.

There are no 'several places'. There is only the name of the castle.

If you want to provide evidence, do so. Conjecture is not evidence. Wishful thinking is not evidence. As Im getting tired of saying, there is no evidence. There is only the name of the castle.

Personally I just think volkihar got retconned

Again alot of vampire NPC's that attack have the name Volkihar literally floating over their head in the game, and they don't fit your lore based off of the book either.

And again, please move on from this topic so that the original purpose can be fulfilled.
I can't contribute much more as a few of the posts took their information from the only sources I knew to look.

In Oblivion, I read Immortal Blood as the priest using Movarth to kill off possible rivals, and that he expected Movarth to not come back at some point because it would be inevitable for Vampires to eventually get the better of him (like Tissinia [sp?]). He initially sends Movarth out with missing information (my assumption when I first read it, which is perhaps wrong), against the Volkihar. When it was obvious Movarth would not be easily killed he makes a point of discovering Movarth's weakness (he cannot be surprised). I think perhaps Movarth proves to be so capable the priest decides to convert him. His reasons could have been a perverse revenge for Movarth being such a good Vampire hunter, or because as an Order Vampire he felt that Movarth as a Vampire would have been a strategic asset.

The question about how or why the book was published is pretty interesting. Like you said Movarth has turned out to be real, there are Vampires in Skyrim called Volkihar, and the information about Cyrodiilic Vampires being concealed and integrated into society was true. There's no descriptions of Vampires we have already experienced, like the 3 clans in Morrowind. Perhaps all of the information on Vampires is deliberately inaccurate (from the author), except the info on the Cyrodiilic Vampires, which makes the entire work appear as fiction to anyone in Tamriel familiar with Vampires. The over-the-top descriptions of morphing through ice, eating men whole and becoming changeling children may have been cues to the reading public that the book is fiction and not to be taken seriously. Perhaps it was written (in the game) to encourage Vampires in Cyrodiil who came across the book to adopt the ways of the Order, and perhaps to secretly seek out other Order Vampires? It could have been disseminated into the normal populace as a novel, with the hidden message of the Order Vampires embedded within it.

All of this is just speculation, but I enjoy speculating about Vampires.

'Kin' as in vampire kin, not as in clan.
No reference to vampire clans are made in Skyrim at all, so by inference its unlikely that they are talking about that.

In my previous volume of notes and observations regarding http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Dimhollow_Crypt's possible connections to the ancient http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Vampire clans of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Skyrim's history."

This assumption is fanfiction. Don't post fanfiction posts.

Do not mistake logical conjecture based on known evidence for speculation.

We do not know when the Immortal Blood book was written and even if it was 2E or 3E thats a lot of years to pass by.

The three clans of Vvardenfell are all explained in the book "Vampires of VVardenfell."

Who knows about the reason why the book was truly published. It could be a hidden message, perhaps. It would have been extremely cunning of them. Though I think the Manifesto is THE book of tenets for their kind. And only one is found and that is in an underground lair discovered by a long-dead vampire, Greywyn Blenwyth. I suppose they didn't want to go around selling copies of their vampiric bible to reveal to the public that they infiltrated society to the highest of levels. So releasing a "fictional," book is the right option. But I doubt they would want too many people in their clan. They said it themselves that their strength is not in numbers, but in "skillful manipulation of society," which means they have different members doing different stations. Like board game players moving the pawns

I love the fact you ignored the quote I posted saying there are more than one clan in Skyrim.
Considering Valerica has a copy of the book and she's been in the Soul Cairn since the First Era . . no, that's just gameplay stuff.

But it's not in Immortal Blood, so apart from the info on Cyrodiilic Vampires we have no information about other Vampires mentioned in IB that has been confirmed outside the book (although I haven't read it in a while, but don't think any Daggerfall Vampires are mentioned in it either). My speculation was that all of the types of Vampires that we 'know' are not mentioned (apart from the Cyrodillic).


To speculate even further (into somewhat ludicrous and unsupported territory), perhaps Immortal Blood could be a test designed to recruit only those Vampires astute enough to see the hidden 'seek out The Order' message. Someone may have deemed those who discerned the truth in the book to have been worthy to join The Order. For some reason I am envisioning solo Vampire pilgrimages to every temple with a priest in Cyrodiil, searching for the author.

The Order are my favourite Vampires from TES (although I probably played longer as a Quarra), and the idea of long term game playing (like the premise in the film http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor_Blade_Smile is one that has always appealed to me, but unfortunately when I played a Vampire in Oblivion I had a bug where going through a door which loaded a new cell turned me into a male. I just couldn't find a way to role play that, so sought a cure for the Vampirism.

? I have been saying all along there are at least two and likely three vampire clans in Skyrim?
Who is not reading who's posts now?
I said that Morvath and his gang are Order vampires as we know from Immortal Blood that that is his lineage.
We also know there are Volkihar as they are the ones the game specificially names so.
I speculate that Harkon and his court are a seperate strain entirely, purebloods.

However, no matter who belongs to what strain, their game mechanics are the same.
All vampires have the same (set of) looks, the same abilties and weaknesses.
Aside from the PC the only NPC that ever becomes a vampire lord is Harkon, and only on two scripted occasions.

Gameplay isnt lore, you cant deduce from looks or abilities who belongs to what strain.

To Abrinth: I love your reasoning to explain why Immortal Blood was written.

Oh how I love pushing your Sesame Street Muppet button's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_%28Muppet%29

I pretty much agree with many of the things you said, but what make you think some of the vampires in Harkon's court are all purebloods? I'm just curious. I think some are halflings, like the player.

The Volkihar you find not in the Castle are thin-blooded, the rejects/mistakes.

1st generation of Volkihar are the Purebloods, they have the purest form of their clans abilities.

2nd Generation, the Mixed Bloods (Pureblood's blood mixed with your blood and the Pureblood's blood takes over fully but since it isn't your natural blood you're considered mixed and are slightly weaker than Purebloods..that doesn't mean you can't kill the Purebloods though) which includes you if are turned by a Pureblood..Harkon or Serana, Mixed Blooded Vampires like Purebloods are able to turn into the Vampire Lord form which is a Volkihar clan ability granted from Pureblood to child (I do believe anyway)

3rd generation those turned by 2nd Gen aren't able to turn into the Vampire Lord form anymore since the highly potent blood of a Pureblooded Vampire has thinned significantly and are considered accidents and are shunned from the Castle..an example is the Feral Vampire in the Volkihar undercroft who hid there since she was banished for being weak a.k.a Thin blooded.

That is how I see it anyway.

1st Gen are always the leaders, kings/queens.

2nd Gen are basically the Nobles, if you wish to think of it in a court system.

3rd Gen are the expendable peasants who tend to cause problems for the Nobles and leaders.

Seems as though the thin-bloods outnumber the Purebloods and Mixed bloods but they are both by far stronger than the thin-bloods so they don't dare attack.

Vanilla Skyrim vampires are all thin-blooded, Dawnguard added the mixed and pureblooded Volkihar...this has angered a lot of people because they don't wish to think of their character as being "naturally" weaker than another, granted personal strength as shown in Dawnguard allows even Mixed Blooded Vampires to become the alpha Vampire of their clan and allows them to put down the "naturally" stronger purebloods, granted you needed the weapon of a God to do it...but yeah.

How in the hell can Harkon be pureblood? Only women can be Daughters of Coldharbor. Molag Bal wants only women.

I like totally agree with people that the volkihar vampires aren't volkihar. I also would propose that the character you play isn't dragon born. I mean so what if the entire plot, design, and dev disprove these (censored) theories, and it was created by people who over think simple things like a game because they are contrarians who feel superior when they go against the norm.

How in the hell can Harkon be pureblood? Only women can be Daughters of Coldharbor. Molag Bal wants only women to [censored].