What exactly is your argument?? It seems as if you want fast travel to be a button click on a map rather than a more immersive travel nexus. That leaves simply footwork for travel and possibly horses. I agree that there should be no easy route to more difficult areas other than footwork but how about from Major city to Major City? There have always been travel networks for those followed up by footwork to less major places out in the sticks.

If you don't understand that fast travel is walking, or horse riding, I can't help you. It's pretty simple. When I'm walking to a specific place I know exactly where I'm going. Kinda of like picking it out on a map.

I've played both using fast travel and avoiding using it. BOTH svck. In FONV using hardcoe mode, at least you get thirsty, hungry, and sleepy with time traveled and is afaik not exploitable (1 second feather spell will take you anywhere), and also doesn't have the same kind of nuts creature respawning that makes it somewhat more feasible.

Bring in Morrowinds travel services and combine it with travel options where you weight your cost, and I'll shut my mouth about it. The fast travel of today should be one method, but time calculation based on walking speed rather than running speed if you don't want risking a random encounter. It may or may not be faster than fast traveling (via the travel options) using the services (there may be limits on them), but it will be considered safer and when we get there we should be well rested, well fed, and thirst dealt with.

The cost variables:
* Safety. Chance of random encounters enroute.
* Money. Using services are not for free.
* Time. Remove feather exploit. Secondary effects are basic needs (probably in hardcoe mode only).
The casual player using fast travel of today can still do it. But it also offers options for those of us who doesn't like it.

If we're the hard core player, we will seek out these travel services instead, and maybe be forced to get a bed for the night until the next mammoth (strider) goes the next day. Services like mammoths, horse dilligences, and boats can also be watched in real time where you just sit back and enjoy the ride, like RDRs train rides. Typically while you grab a meal. When finished you just hit skip to go back to map view where your travel is plotted in increased speed.

Morrowinds "problem for the casual gamer" was that the player had to memorize the routes rather than show an interactive map. I'm not a casual player, but I *do* ask myself "I have a computer playing a game, so why the hell am I drawing maps (Morrowind) and writing down quest notes (FONV)?" The game should offer me these, especially considering how unstable they become running other apps in the background and doing alt-tab flips between then.

"Can someone explain the hatred of fast travel?" - It's basically the "If you don't' want it, don't use it" faulty argument that goes again and again that fuels the hatred, whose posters fails to recognize that we want something we can *believe* in. Immersion doesn't seem to matter a single bit to these guys (sorry for the generalization), and walking as the only believable way of getting around is too tedious.

You don't believe in walking? You think catching a cab would be more hardcoe than walking? Weird.

Lol. At least there is one thing we can agree on. You've lost me.........

Youre correct. I do not understand.

Yup, I should absolutely have left a tl:dr footnote.

I dislike using fast travel in Oblivion and Fallout 3 since i will be skipping fights that would drain my resources otherwise. It is, in a sense, teleportation.

In Fallout 3 however there was a mod integrated into FWE that only allowed fast traveling with a motorcycle, that you had to keep fixed and fueled. That could work for Skyrim.

Well, if you replace "motorcycle" with a "horse" Hmm, Dwemer motorcycle... :lightbulb:

To the idea of a rusty hog!

What Morrowind had is fast travel. Silt Strider and boats ARE fast travel. Its somewhat restrictive, but still "fast travel". Instantaneously going from one spot to another is fast travel.

Not to mention Mages Guild teleports. And then there was Mark and Recall making it even easier than Oblivion to haul loot out of a dungeon. All Oblivion did was remove the immersion from fast traveling.

Personally TES games would be absolutely horrible without fast traveling. Even with a horse. Oblivion would have been better without rideable horses and if the stables had just been travel points, with maybe some kind of boat system along the rivers and more Inns along the roads(with stables).

Edit: Running and Walking are not fast traveling, I cant understand where that idea came from either.

I agree with this....how it was done in morrowind was perfect.
And no i don't prefer morrowind over oblivion ,i like them the same.
Willpower/temptation can be an issue.
They spend alot of time creating a beautiful world,we should look at it,not bypass it.
As milt said,there were a few options in morrowind,which in my view was better.It still had fast travel,just not in cheap/lazy way.

You see,in todays day and age,people get used to having things dished on a plate for them....( this seems to be creeping into games too ) thats how i see fast travel.
I believe people should be encouraged to explore,walk the same path etc....thats why all the effort goes into such a world.
Why make a big open world with respawning creatures,different scenery,random dragon attacks,for it to be by-passed once you found a place once.
I DO not like fast travel....End of!

It's very, VERY obvious that you're just flaming people in this thread now. You are doing nothing but arguing anything against YOUR point, while others are offering how they feel on the situation, you are doing nothing but causing trouble, and again, that's pretty obvious with how you just replied to what he said. He offered a serious, long, well thought out post and all you have to say is lolwalkingisrealbro.

Word.

Really, because him being disparaging to those who think fast travel is the way to go is alright because you agree with him. Get a life.

For me it all comes down to how much time I have to play each night. If I have a lot of time to play, then I would walk everywhere I needed to go in Oblivion and Morrowind. But if I did not have that much time then I would use fast travel in Oblivion and Mark/Recall in Morrowind. I never once used the Silt Striders in Morrowind, too hard to find them there when I needed them there. It all boils down to how each person wishes to play the game, and not everyone plays the game the same, but for me any parts of the game I do not like (like the DB and Thieves' Guild questlines) I do not do them. Immersion is all in the eye of the beholder.

And honestly, the developers need to make the game accessible to all players, and for the casual gamer, who just wants to complete the game and go on to other things, would want the quickest way to get from point A to point B, which is fast travel. Even if more types were available, most people would still use the click and travel type of fast travel, which is why it is there. And more than likely, those type of gamers out number us, by a whole lot. So, I think that is why they will leave the other types of fast travel for the modders to make, and put their development energies to more important things.

I think it might have just been that the food anologies were too confusing. I had to read through it a couple of times trying to keep track of which bit of food represented which feature of the game. :shrug:

Yes, it was a travel system, intended to speed up things, but when people talk about fast travel, they mean the "click where you want to go and get exactly there" system that was popularized in Daggerfall. It was kinda needed in Daggerfall because of the sheer size of the game, and it worked out. Time based traveling from anywhere. Difference was, you could elect to spend money to stay at inns, take boats, and move safely or recklessly (safely was slower and prevented arrival at night, so you dont end up locked outside the main gate)

Fast Travel isn't the only way to go.
Neither is a form of publicly available transportation from city to city.
Both should be included in the game, and no one has suggested otherwise. You're the one who is so "against" any other form of travel besides Fast Travel it seems.

True true, I′m a bit clumsy when it comes to getting my point across.

But I do still believe people spend too much time raging.

I am just trying to understand what your argument is. To you is fast travel a button push on a map? Is it walking and horseback everywhere without the button push? I don't ask these questions out of malice. I ask to provide transparency in the hopes that our beloved but increasingly thickheaded game designers may be reading and keep it as "food for thought". The end result is a more enjoyable experience definately not to all but to a possibly a few more paying customers.

No I just stated if the other modes aren't already in then I would prefer them not waste time on it. I also said that Oblivion's system was more realistic then your public transportation idea.

Sorry but, you saying Oblivions style of travel is more realistic than Morrowinds is simply incorrect. And that's not even personal opinion, that's fact. Just pure lols.

To clarify my primary argument is that a travel nexus is better and that taking out the button pushing on a map is in fact more advantageous froma developement standpoint. Might take you a while to find it cause it's been lost in the list of "one liners"

Ah well I know what people meant but I just think theyre using wrong terminology and its leading to pointless arguments . They use the same thing in other games(Guild Wars comes to mind) and theres so many different systems that you cant blanket them all with either "fast travel" or walking anymore. Paying money and having the game time change but still having it be instant in real time is still fast travel, just a different sort. I guess you could call it "immersive fast travel" or something, not that I want to be picky but people saying Morrowind had no fast traveling is just plain wrong IMO.

GTA4 did it the best with its taxi system. Get in and pick where you want to go, and you actually got driven there in real time. But you can hit "skip" at any time to get there instantly.

Edit: So my solution to Oblivions would be stage coaches where you could hit "skip" or enjoy the ride(it being much faster than walking or running) and you can hop out at any point along the way.

Idk how you would do that with Skyrim though(would have to see the terrain).

Well, there's realistic and there's realistic. By "realistic" one could be referring to the similarity in travel options to some real-world counterpart of Skyrim (Scandinavia in the Middle Ages, perhaps). Or, by "realistic" one could be referring to the idea that fast-travel options do exist in Tamriel (as we saw in Morrowind), and so it seems like the inhabitants of Tamriel would use those travel options to move between cities and towns.