Hey, I'm no buff. I love the lore of the world of "Elder Scrolls". My first was Oblivion. Just came accross some info...Some say the skirmishes between Dwemer and Falmer (Snow Elves) became too intense and the Dwemer may have left or vanished as a result of a truce or defeat...not revealing any new info here. No spoiler. Been following the Dwarves and its more interesting than real life ancient stuffs...Anyway, the reason I post is to recommend reading "FALL OF THE SNOW PRINCE"...Anyone else have in-game books besides Calcemo of Markarth's materials?

While I agree that the Dwemer failed, I do not see why leaving behind things that would be useless in an immortal life is a failure.
"Hey, let us all become immortal and go back to before time existed! Oh yeah, and let us take with us our ruins, tales, poetry, armors, golems and automata to this timeless and immortal world, just in case!"

Or maybe I am misunderstanding? That to go back to before time existed, they must erase every sign of themselves existing, or some odd stuff like that?

Nope. As stated multiple times, the Dwemer became Numidium's shiny skin. One day the Dwemer just upped and disappeared, leaving free reign for the Falmer.

Its not really a spoiler though, its history.
Almost a decade I think since what happened to the Dwemer was explained.

I kind of think they don't explain what happened to the dwemer just to make people buy Morrowind just to find out.

That, or Bethesda honestly thinks they're going to do another "discover what happened to the dwemer" quest line a couple more games down the road, when they've got enough new players who never played Morrowind that it would actually surprise a decent chunk of the player-base.


I've never liked this explanation: it's far too literal of an explanation of what happened.

The Numidium is the vehicle of apotheosis, forged in the heart of the God of Physics, and cast of an entire race's combined souls, designed to transcend the dwemer from their "profane" physical forms back unto the "sacred" forms beyond time.

Saying they turned into the shiny armor of a big robot is far too physical and ignores the metaphysical aspect of what they were trying to accomplish entirely.

I think the point is that they didn't do it right and thus suffered the consequences of tampering with things they should have just left alone. Like it or not, it is.

No, again, I think there's no evidence they actually failed. The "shiny skin" part can just be a physical remnant of their achievement, and there is no way to know whether they succeeded or not, because where they were sending themselves, we would not be able to conceive. They move sideways through time now - their eternity was less than an instant to us that we passed over a thousand years ago, and neither can they perceive us with their perpendicular time.

Honestly, they just need to bring Yagrum Bagarn into a DLC and have him just outright say what happened.

Because I agree with Wraith_Magus. We've got the golden skin, sure, but that's barely scratching the surface of what the Dwemer were trying to accomplish.

No reason you can't go on believing what you do, but I don't think there's anymore evidence to support that they succeeded than there is that they didn't.

Yes, but all I've been saying is the inverse - that there's no more evidence to say that they failed than that they succeeded. There's no evidence either way. To say one or the other conclusively is the error I am pointing out.

Correct, but our lack of evidence in saying "this is what happened" is made up for in Dev commentary that explicitly states that the Dwenmer became the Numidium's skin.

For someone who is hanging by the every utterance of Michael Kirkbride, your method of thought is entirely too linear, literal, and litigious.

You obviously know nothing about me nor my ideas if you think I hang on every utterance of MK. I took what was said for what it was, not everything is completely and utterly complex and evasive. Some things just are, and its of my opinion the Dwenmer are dead and gone, payed full the price of their meddling.

And they're elves, so they're the perfect substitute for Dwemer in terms of gameplay.

You can't be certain because nobody knows, remember? I realize you may know more than I but think 'bout that! Shartruce!

Whoever told you that was lying.

Besides, it's begging the question to use "but nobody knows" as your argument against somebody who claims to know.

When Morrowind was finished, there was no consensus among the developers on what happened to the Dwemer. I don't think they quite knew themselves. The whole Battle of Red Mountain was a big Rashomon effect anyway.

Actually, I don't remember what the first source was that discussed the Dwemer turning themselves into Numidium's skin. I don't think it was in Morrowind though.

Was post in the first page:

Remember that MK contribute a lot into the lore of the Elder Scroll.

*sigh* We know, we know, we know.

Although I did figure it was MK that made that idea. Personally, I wouldn't have minded too much if the answer was never given. In my mind such a grand plot point would only get deflated by a logical answer. Mystery is good.

At the same time, if no answer was given, we could never have a full understanding of the Towers as we couldn't have an understanding of the Numidium as we wouldn't understand that the Numidium is literally all that's left of the Dwemer (aside from Yagrum, assuming he survived the Red Year and all that followed). If not knowing what happened in the Disappearance only meant there'd be a hole in our knowledge of just the Dwemer, then it'd be fine, but if it crosses over into other aspects of lore then it's problematic.

I disagree. In the text, "...Towers" and in the Nu-Mantia intercepts, you can glean a wealth of information about the Tower, the Wheel, and the Towers. Sure you wouldn't have a "full" understanding of the Towers, but right now we don't have the "full" understanding. In order to have the "full" understanding you'd have to among those who thought up the various ideas or have said people explain it to you through and through.

Never said we have a "full" understanding, much less that we have it because of knowing what happened to the Dwemer/Numidium; I only stated that keeping the Disappearance a mystery would for sure present an insurmountable obstacle on the way to gaining a "full" understanding. Let me put it this way: the potential implications of the answer we were given with regards to the Disappearance has for world building is more interesting (imho) than the mystery of the Disappearance. (If you ask me, things left unknown in the lore should be that way if it's because they are or involve concepts so alien that we can't possibly understand them, rather than "oh, we just don't know and never will".)

Well unless it is stated somewhere in one of the games I don't think you can take it as a definitive answer anyway. To my knowledge MK isn't the sole writer of the series nor its owner. Perhaps certain things are left out of the games because the developers want players to keep wondering, they want the mystery to remain, and because they (the developers) want to leave themselves enough wiggle room to tell more stories and make more games (more money).

As for the Dwemer... well I'm as clueless as anyone, go figure.

Personally, I like to think that they succeeded in whatever they did and transcended reality as we (or the people of Tamriel) know it. Perhaps in time others will follow them. The Dwemer were very advanced as a people so it is no surprise they'd make the leap long before anyone else.

The exact same argument about the Dwemer becoming the Numidium can be made using only in-game sources, the only thing it would lack is the particular about them being the 'golden-skin' (which really an arbitrary bit of information anyway).

You can't dodge the Dwemer being the Numidium by dismissing out-of-game sources, the in-game ones say the same thing, just in a more roundabout manner.
See above.

MK also said recently that it won't be answered.


I also seem to remember a post by him stating that he would retract the answer he gave, but the forum search isn't turning anything up.