I have somehow screwed up my game to the point of instability, with some texture problems here and there, but now crashing frequently, including the especially aggravating "Crash on Save." I don't have very many mods, and I'm not using the big guns that make wholesale changes. The ones I installed earlier were manual installations, the more recent ones were fomods. I'm afraid the last straw may have been toggling archive invalidation from FOMM when I had not done so earlier when I had merely changed the setting in the .ini file. I have tried rolling back, deactivating all but one of the fomods, but the instability persists. I've been through the sticky FAQ and nothing suggests itself I'm on the verge of uninstalling the whole game, which naturally I hate to do.

So I need some advice. Here's my current load order:

[X] Fallout3.esm
[X] Anchorage.esm
[X] ThePitt.esm
[X] BrokenSteel.esm
[X] PointLookout.esm
[X] Zeta.esm
[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm
[X] CALIBR.esm
[ ] DCInteriors_ComboEdition.esm
[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp
[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp
[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.esp
[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.esp
[X] Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Mothership Zeta.esp
[X] DarNifiedUIF3.esp
[ ] DelayAnchorage.esp
[ ] DelayThePitt.esp
[X] DelaySteel.esp
[X] delaypl.esp
[X] delayzeta.esp
[X] Delay ThePitt + Anchorage.esp
[X] Rude Awakening.esp
[X] Megaton House and Theme Overhaul.esp
[X] CanterburyCommonsInteriors.esp
[X] Dragonskin Tactical Outfit.esp
[X] CantaburyCommonsGuards.esp
[X] Less Useless Karma Gifts 2.0.esp
[X] Slower Degradation (-50%).esp
[ ] better megaton home.esp
[X] 1alexscorpionsnipergear.esp
[X] Confessor Cromwell has a Break_EV.esp
[X] MinuteMinder.esp
[X] NoLockTopic.esp
[X] Down Under.esp

These are the fomods, all but one turned off (and DCInteriors, GNR, LucyWest, and Pre War Books have never been activated). Of these, the last one activated and first one deactivated was the DIMONIZED Type 3.

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu294/HermanntheLombard/PackageManager.jpg

I found the root cause of the instability.

You're using a Gamebryo-based game.

All joking aside, export your load order, deactivate all your FOMODs, and move all the folders out of the Data folder to another location not in the game's path (like, make a folder on the desktop and move 'em there), and see what happens. You might also want to move all your mods (.esp files) out of the Data folder to. Don't move Fallout.esm or any .BSA files that start with "Fallout" Then see if the problem persists.

Crashing on saves means your save is probably corrupt. This is the infamous "quicksave" bug. Basically, auto saves and quick saves aren't done properly and take a few shortcuts. Over time, this results in an inconsistent state.

A solution is to use CASM, disable all autosaves, and then reset the world, by going indoors, using "set timescale to 100000" waiting a few seconds, then "set timescale to 30". This *may* tidy up your game. And it may not.

I see that Kristoffer is not fond of CASM. I have disabled all autosaves. Can I try --would it make sense to try--saving in an interior cell with all the fomods deactivated (only one is active now), then sleeping for three days to let the world reset?

Once I clear all my gear out of the Megaton House, I could pretty much disable all the non-Bethesda mods except for the sniper gear with no impact on my game, and I've found that the sniper gear is a bit overpowered, so I could let that go too. This would more or less combine Kristoffer's suggestion with Hattix's suggestion, without enabling CASM.

Well, I did pretty much what I described in the last post, deactivated all fomods and most of the little "esp only" mods, slept for 3 days, and so on. This helped! The game hasn't crashed in the several hours since (and I'm avoiding using Quick Save). However, I'm still having texture problems where parts of the image get pixellated and those pixels show random colors, and sometimes I get an effect where lines and triangles of color radiate toward me from a point that's usually near the right rear of the image. The following image shows both, though the radiating lines are very subdued here, looking almost like part of a cartoon balloon.

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu294/HermanntheLombard/settler-tex.jpg

Here's one more with just the colors breaking through, I call it:

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu294/HermanntheLombard/moira-tex.jpg

One thought: could the Unofficial patches have anything to do with this? There's not much else left, unless something that I've deactivated or disabled caused damage to be left behind.

Ah, I just realized this suggestion is more drastic than I first thought: you're saying to move *all* the folders: meshes, textures, and so forth, plus the .esps, leaving only Fallout.esm and the .bsa files (including the DLCs, I would assume). I guess I have nothing to lose, as while the crashing is gone, the texture problems are getting worse:

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu294/HermanntheLombard/GettingWorse.jpg

Well to give you a few tips.

You don't have to move them if you just want to test if the replacers are what are causing crashes.

You can rename the folders (simply put a few +++ in front of the folder name) then the game cannot find the replacers and yes things will be messed up but if it saves then you are on the right track. In this case the biggest culprit is meshes and I would try that first then textures.

Being a long time oblivion player I learned to only make hard saves with this game engine and have never once made a quick/fast save with this game.

But other things to try ...

Does this issue persist with a new game?

Does the crash on save happen more when indoors or outdoors?

Are you always trying to save in the same area? Try another area (in interior try exterior or another interior). Definitely try where mods don't touch - you have a megaton house mod - don't try and save there.

Then also really I cannot recommend using an installer to install mods and mod resources - I'm very biased with regard to http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/, which will show you if replacers are missing after you install them.

You can also try using FO3edit to run the masterupdate. A number of crashes on cell loads or saves have beeb eliminated by running master update.

The texture bug you're seeing is a hardware problem, nothing to do with Fallout3.

Textures are stored as 8x8 blocks according to DXTC and as you can see, some of those blocks are being corrupted. Either the texture data on disk is corrupted (the textures will look identical each time) or they're being corrupted in video memory (the textures will have corruption in different places each time).

This is usually caused by overclocking the video card. Fallout3 is exceptionally sensitive to even slightly flawed video hardware: I can pass Furmark with my HD5750 clocked at 920 MHz, but Fallout3 crashes, corrupts textures and has triangles everywhere at just 830MHz.

The other alternative is that your video card is actually faulty.

I have to be a bit more selective in renaming or moving folders, since I immediately rendered myself unable to launch the game. This part will take more time, possibly enough time that reinstallation would be quicker (and certainly cleaner).


I was successful in Oblivion with Quick Saves, though I quickly disabled Autosaves. I was doing Quick Saves here, and that may have been the source of my troubles.


I haven't tried a new game yet. The crash on save mostly or exclusively happened outdoors, especially in the area of the far end of the bridge from the Jefferson Memorial, where the Enclave likes to hang out. I don't know any mods changing that area with the possible (or probable) exception of the Unofficial Patch.

Thank you (all) very much for the tips. I seem to be doing OK now when I save, scrupulously avoiding F5, though I haven't tried that spot I mentioned lately. I had one crash during play, but only one lately. However, some graphic glitches persist, but now they're "in the air" rather than facial or fractal, and mostly at night within Megaton. I'll continue experimenting, and I'll reinstall if it gets too annoying or time-consuming.

Crashes in one area are often related to corrupt spawn points but could also be a mesh or texture (seriously) - you can narrow that down more by going elsewhere and wait out a cell respawn then go back and try - if it doesn't crash then possibly a corrupt spawn point. If it does then possibly a mesh or even an AI on a character there. Get a FormID of an object in the area - load all mods in FO3edit then type in the FormID and then check the cell or worldspace and see if any other mods are listed there.

Or it could be mod conflcits due to mods http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/TES4Edit_Cleaning_Guide#Part_.231:_Why_Clean.3F. Where cleaning might help.

If saves are ok in other areas then really I don't think it is an auto/quick save issue - it is that area and what is presented there.

As for faces pixilated - are you using body mods that add new bodies or skin textures? If so remove them and test if the issue persists. that could be a number of things - do the pixels look like textures from other objects or just anomalies? Could be not all resources from said mods were installed or perhaps they have since been overwritten by another mod that also touched the same textures causing conflict.

How did you install the mods? It is best to use an installer. I'm very biased to using http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/ (part of Gary/Wrye Bash) but even Fallout Mod Manager (version 12+) will give a meaningful conflict reports on replacers.

also are you using Vista/Windows 7? have you used the default install location? Best not to.

How old is the game (how many hours on the save game file)?

Oh yeah cleaning out links form my favorites and found one on http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1033875-tracking-down-a-corrupt-spawn-point/.

Best of luck.

I just realized I never responded to these questions and suggestions! Sorry!

I was (and still am) having night-time anomalies in Megaton, where lights and small rectangular areas of light appear and flicker, generally starting about 1/3 of the screen height from the top, and extending up about an inch (on a 20-inch monitor). That began before I installed any skin textures, but I don't think the skin pixilation began until after I installed the Type 3 bodies, and it disappeared when I removed most of my mods--including the bodies--wholesale. Neither the installation nor the removal of that mod affected the night-time problems, and there are also occasional bouts of anomalous "triangles" typically radiating from points in the upper right.

Most of the mods were installed with FOMM, but not all were, and in particular the Unofficial Patch mods were not. I'm playing under Windows XP, and even there I don't accept the default directory. The game is a couple of hundred hours old, with the character at Level 30. There are many things that character has not done (of course), specifically including Broken Steel, PL, and Zeta. OTOH the character is now rather over-powered (though an albino radscorp or a behemoth can still give him a run for his stimpaks). I'm reluctant to start a new character because of the extreme spoiler value of knowing how the MQ comes out.

Still, maybe the best idea is to uninstall, reinstall, install a basic set of mods, and start a new game.

All right, now I'm annoyed. :angry:

I uninstalled, reinstalled, activated DelayDLC and DarNified UI, and started a new character. I get out to Springvale and I'm peaceably looting houses when I reach the house that will be the holy water temple, and this is what I find:

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu294/HermanntheLombard/TempleGhosts.jpg

I don't think those mods have anything to do with this, rather it looks like something didn't get cleared by the uninstall/reinstall. Any thoughts? [I haven't seen any other anomalies, so far.]

Those are not ghosts those are missing meshes. You find similar icons in Morrowind and Oblivion for the exact same issue - your stuff is not installed correctly.

Or, it is not being accessed correctly. I assume you have BSA invalidation set with FOMM. If not sure investigate that.

If repackaging BSA files then make sure to redate them to when the originals were.

So then what I would do with those (since there is no ref/formID finder for F3) is open the console and click on the triangles and write down the number given. Then open up all mods in FO3edit and type the number in - it should tell you what it is supposed to be. Then look at your other mods in edit or replacers in your data folder and make sure what is supposed to be there is.

I find BAIN to be superior in installing, but everyone knows I'm biased about that. You should be using an installer with EVERYTHING you install. Only the newer versions of FOMM give meaningful conflict reports but Gary Bash/BAIN is good to go from the first version really. Aslong as you move all installed content into being placed by an installer you should be ok. Not really needed to start anew (other than that fresh feeling).

As for megaton lights - without seeing hard to understand - screenshot might help. The way you wrote that sounds like it could be in real life not on your monitor. Might need an exorcist for that.

Ack! I reinstalled FOMM and I bet (no, I'm certain) that I forgot to click the toggle button. :facepalm:


I guess I should cut back on the hallucinogens.

Actually, I haven't seen that problem since the re-installation. I tried to take screen shots of that, but the light areas flashed in and out so it was hard to capture them. If they come back (god forbid) I will try again.

BTW, thank you for your patience with this!!

THAT is useful information, thanks!

You are both welcome.

Since I'm more into Oblivion than F3 (well right now more into Warband than any other game, but you know ...) there are a some newer resource pools of information for Oblivion that might be helpful in these kinds of situations.

After writing my own thread on http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/957424-custom-bain-projects/ some year and half ago then http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/ - another forum member, Tomlong75210, took up the torch of documenting installation issues more generally and extended that into all sorts of things like troubleshooting. It has more to do with Oblivion. The site is http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/ - there is some great stuff there that very much applies to this game as well since the game engines are basically variations on each other (I think actually branches off of the Morrowind engine).

Definitely worth checking out for answers.