Canada got the Shaft.

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:12 am

Probably the "too little too late" bit. Personally, I agree with your idea o' spreadin' broadband all over the place. Elaborate further for a non-tech-minded hoobah like myself. Because anythin' that can punch Internet companies in the nuts is a-okay in my book.

"Too little too late" was meaning to suggest that this could have been prevented long ago, but nobody cared. In fact, it was everyone else that had a "roll over and die" attitude.

Monthly broadband caps have long been predicted, and as mentioned Videotron has long implemented this. Given that people in both the US and Canada don't have many options, the only viable competition can be municipal which is payed by taxpayers, which forces these companies (that would without a doubt vehemently oppose it) to compete which is something they don't need to do ATM.

A US example is with little competition it hasn't given incentive for Verizon to roll out it's FIOS or AT&T to upgrade to it's FTT* fiber infrastructure nationwide because they found out they can instead implement monthly caps which is far more cost-effective for them, and makes it not as necessary to upgrade their networks to fit the need of users needing more bandwidth nowadays.
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Shelby Huffman
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:41 am

So they makes it easier for thems and harder for us because we ain'ts gots no alternative, but we could get an alternative if taxpayers decided that they'd fund their own local bits. Am I getting that right? If'n I am, sounds like a good idea to me.
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mishionary
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:04 am

Yep, pretty much. :)

I love the PR by these companies that makes it look like users are increasingly bandwidth hogs in need of being capped when it's data that's getting continuously and substantially larger necessitating both higher bandwidth usage and upgraded infrastructure.

The disappointing factor is for years on websites like DSLR we've been seeing implementations of monthly caps happen and coming from long and far away. I guess like the tsunami issue nobody wants to do anything until it's right at your doorstep.
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krystal sowten
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:10 am

I guess like the tsunami issue nobody wants to do anything until it's right at your doorstep.

That's 'cause when someone wants to do something they're called paranoid for attempting to disturb that wonderful status quo. And that they should just shut up. It's disgustin'.
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Ashley Campos
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:48 am

Which part was "roll over and die"? I thought I presented an alternative to combating this.

Okay good alternative, but why does it have to be an alternative? Why not both? That's what I'm trying to say.
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SHAWNNA-KAY
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:47 pm

Okay good alternative, but why does it have to be an alternative? Why not both? That's what I'm trying to say.

Because monthly caps are already in place -- AT&T being the last major US broadband carrier to implement them. Bell Canada was the last major Canadian broadband carrier. Hence, too late. That scenario is gone. :wave: People had an awful long time to stop this from coming and didn't do anything.

So of the two scenarios, one is still viable. There are actually other alternatives, like wireless, but they also need quite a bit of infrastructure upgrades to be seen as competitors in the broadband market, and like broadband carriers, there's, right, now, also a limited amount of competitors, due to the very same reason of swallowing up other competing companies.
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!beef
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:15 am

Because monthly caps are already in place -- AT&T being the last major US broadband carrier to implement them. Bell Canada was the last major Canadian broadband carrier. Hence, too late. That scenario is gone. :wave: People had an awful long time to stop this from coming and didn't do anything.

So of the two scenarios, one is still viable. There are actually other alternatives, like wireless, but they also need quite a bit of infrastructure upgrades to be seen as competitors in the broadband market, and like broadband carriers, there's, right, now, also a limited amount of competitors, due to the very same reason of swallowing up other competing companies.

Why? WHY is it too late? Is it written into the meta physical threads of the multiverse that it can't be undone EVER?
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Sarah MacLeod
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:41 pm

Why? WHY is it too late? Is it written into the meta physical threads of the multiverse that it can't be undone EVER?

Unlike Microsoft Word, unfortunately the situation isn't as simple as hitting an Undo button, especially when getting something like this takes years of both implementation and PR.. convincing the public that this is perfectly okay, which they certainly have responded to by.. continuing to take the services of Comcast, Charter, Rogers, Videotron, and so on, all of which implement monthly bandwidth caps, some of them for years now.

People speak with their money, and that is what these companies ultimately listen to. The fact that a mere possibility exists, and the probability that it occur, are on two planes of discussion, one of which seems rather trivial to discuss unless you have some actual tangible solution as to how the scenario proposed would work and actually be worth the effort instead of the other means proposed.
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Neko Jenny
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:13 am

Unlike Microsoft Word, unfortunately the situation isn't as simple as hitting an Undo button, especially when getting something like this takes years of both implementation and PR.. convincing the public that this is perfectly okay, which they certainly have responded to by.. continuing to take the services of Comcast, Charter, Rogers, Videotron, and so on, all of which implement monthly bandwidth caps, some of them for years now.

People speak with their money, and that is what these companies ultimately listen to. The fact that a mere possibility exists, and the probability that it occur, are on two planes of discussion, one of which seems rather trivial to discuss unless you have some actual tangible solution as to how the scenario proposed would work and actually be worth the effort instead of the other means proposed.

Okay your plan is good, but why not do both? You want to ensure the future for a competitive market, so go all the way. Give them no quarter. I also never said it would be easy.
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RaeAnne
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:42 am

Okay your plan is good, but why not do both? You want to ensure the future for a competitive market, so go all the way. Give them no quarter. I also never said it would be easy.

In lieu of not posting the same thing repetitively, I'd go with posts #120 and middle paragraph of #126, or just #131 which directly answered this very question.

Unfortunately if you want a stable broadband connection at all, right now, your options are limited. Therefore, work with what you have, instead of with what you don't, would seem like the Occam's Razor method.
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Isabell Hoffmann
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:14 pm

In lieu of not posting the same thing repetitively, I'd go with posts #120 and middle paragraph of #126, or just #131 which directly answered this very question.

Unfortunately if you want a stable broadband connection at all, right now, your options are limited. Therefore, work with what you have, instead of with what you don't, would seem like the Occam's Razor method.

Your plan idea is better as a stepping stone to greater things. We'll make things to work with, instead of just working in the system. Also lol Occam's Razor is ironic every time it is used.
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saharen beauty
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:00 pm

Let's put it this way. Cell phone carriers charge an incredible amount to to send text messages which are extremely small amounts of data compared to data used over a data network. Now, instead of just going "halt!" and making them stop, which surely isn't going to work, companies like Google come along with an alternative like Google Voice. AT&T begins to lose customers to expensively crappy text plans, they respond by lowering the price or doing something similar. Customer wins.

In this case, municipal would be competitive for those who want it, and would force AT&T (using them as an example) to lower their prices and potentially higher their caps, upgrade infrastructure, or rid of their cap entirely.

I haven't yet read a method of instantaneously (skipping your stepping stone anology) making AT&T and other broadband companies decide to just ditch monthly bandwidth caps when it's clear they can do this with impunity.

What exactly is your plan? And what would working outside the system entail?
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Elena Alina
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:47 am

Blech, that's really unfortunate. Granted, my download and upload speeds are pretty awful because of where I live, but I still have an unlimited amount of what I can actually download.
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Brιonα Renae
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:45 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsffmLcEqPo
http://action.cwa-union.org/salsa/track.jsp?v=2&c=7z5w%2BIGegwbzo18k3dtyn67jKoBopJls
http://action.cwa-union.org/salsa/track.jsp?v=2&c=P8qEZ6gAa%2FsE3slshr3ka67jKoBopJls


Oh my god. This makes me want to move to Europe.
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Nicholas
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:23 pm

I'm switching whatever services I can to American companies. You guys should too
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Damned_Queen
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:08 am

Your plan idea is better as a stepping stone to greater things. We'll make things to work with, instead of just working in the system. Also lol Occam's Razor is ironic every time it is used.

How is it ironic to go with the simplest explanation that covers everything? :huh:

I hope this doesn't end up too political, but I'm quite amused about you and Third discussing the lack of consumer choice in the heartland of capitalism... while Australia, which is a little more socialistic, seems to be better off in that regard :laugh:. Admittedly, Telstra owns pretty much all the hardware/the entire copper network (and to some degree controls the wholesale price of ADSL1), but at least we've got a bunch more retailers who can offer plans anywhere that you can get a connection, and an increasing number of ISP's are putting their own hardware into exchanges, so ADSL2 is fairly competitive (ADSL2+ plans are usually cheaper/more gig for buck than ADSL1). And you're talking about getting government bodies (only on a municipal level, but still) to put in infrastructure, while Australia is having fibre laid out nationally by a government initiative, with the plan of wholesaling at minimal profit to any and all.
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i grind hard
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:10 pm

Hope you guysfight off the cap, it def svcks. I'd hate to see it spread down here to the US too :x
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Elina
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:38 am

Hope you guysfight off the cap, it def svcks. I'd hate to see it spread down here to the US too :x

AT&T, Comcast, Charter, Verizon.. they all have monthly caps. Kinda late on that one. Same thing with Bell, Rogers, Videotron, etc.

I think the main issue is anti-competitive practice for Bell forcing the US version of a CLEC to no longer use unlimited monthly bandwidth and force them to buy bandwidth at the same cost as consumers which means to make a profit they must sell it higher.

In basic terms, the real problem with this is monopolization and anti-competitive behavior.
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Ludivine Poussineau
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:00 am

I agree its ridiculous...we're switching to a smaller, less known internet provider who still provide unlimited. My boyfriend and I are avid computer nerds and are constantly downloading, streaming, etc. so it'll be a good investment. Sick and tired of Bell and this ridiculous 30 gigs a month for a hugely unreasonable price bullcrap. I didn't think it was down to 25gb though... I mean I know some that still provide unlimited and even Bell provides 60gb a month packages too.
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TASTY TRACY
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:25 pm

If you think the Bell Canada issue was bad enough, it gets worse with Rogers:

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Rogers-Accidentally-Throttling-World-Of-Warcraft-113412
Rogers Accidentally Throttling World Of Warcraft
Problems With Company's Network Management Continue

Canadian cable operator Rogers has been one of the most aggressive ISPs in terms of playing whac-a-mole with P2P users over the last five years. In addition to service tiers featuring some of the lowest caps and highest per gig overages in North America, Rogers has a long history of using various methods to throttle P2P users, even when encrypted. Judging from numerous posts in our Rogers forum over the last year, Rogers' deep-packet-inspection based throttling technology has occasionally crippled user speeds substantially, and in some cases the technology has impacted non-P2P applications. Back in October of last year, Rogers admitted the problems in our forums:

Hey all - we've been following the conversation here and wanted to jump in with an update. As some of you are aware, Rogers recently made some upgrades to our network management systems that had the unintended effect of impacting non-p2p file sharing traffic under a specific combination of conditions. Our network engineering team is working on the best way to address this issue as quickly as possible.

Fast forward almost half a year, and Rogers is now acknowledging that their over-enthusiastic traffic management platform has also been accidentally throttling World Of Warcraft users. Responding to complaints by Canadian regulators, Rogers says they fixed one issue causing accidentally WOW throttling, only to have another pop up. Rogers says this new problem won't be fixed until June:


This is really getting bad for Canada ISP's.

Rogers' forums are getting peppered with complaints:

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/Getting_connected/thread-id/557/page/16

They even went as far as to blame Blizzard for their throttling. :lol:

As you can see, lots of pissed off customers threatening action against them as well as changing ISPs.
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QuinDINGDONGcey
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:42 am

You guys gotta switch to American communications service providers!!! That's how you send a message!
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RUby DIaz
 
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