Same article:
"With each SPECIAL having 10 Perks, there are 70 base Perks. With Perk ranks, it increases that number to over 270. That number also includes a top-level Training perk for each SPECIAL, so that you can essentially skip a regular Perk and raise a SPECIAL by 1. This gives you the benefit of the new SPECIAL value, and allows access to higher Perks in future levels."

This looks much like Special Training to me, but instead of putting them anywhere, each rank goes to one of the attributes.

That, and you're only stopped by the SPECIAL cap, whereas intense training used to have a maximum number of times you could take it (IIRC).

Indeed, there were 10 ranks you could spend on any attribute you want, up to maxing it at 10.
But, what I am saying is it seems there's only one training perk for each attribute.

What I am getting at, it it doesn't seem to me that we can just max out every attribute.
Perhaps I am reading it wrong, though.

I can see that with enough time all characters will end up the same, IF we are forced to take a perk before we exit the level up screen. If not, then you can keep your PC unique.

I think starting as I plan to with a PC with high P and A that my early stages of the game may go in a different direction than a second build with high C and I. If nothing else, it makes me want to try it just to see. I will especially try this if it looks like my first PC could have gone a different way by not being so sneaky and lethal. Perhaps a smart and charismatic PC will talk their way through things, and struggle greatly when backed into a corner and forced to fight.

Either way, I think the soft cap on this game will be somewhere around 90 or so. If we have 270-275 perks, 90 would get us about a third of them, making it possible that replaying and choosing a different 90 perks next time could give us a new experience along the path to the final goal.

I thought that too, but look at the video. Todd zooms in on one of them and each one has exactly 10 stars. So each one can be taken at most 9 times.

If you at the video around the 40-second mark, you will see that there are ten ranks in each of the training perks for attributes.

There are 10 stars there. But, is that indicative of a special training perk for each rank of the attribute, or is it just indicative of what level your attributes are at?

It looks to me like there are 10 stars, with only your current level filled in. So if you are level 3 in Strength it lights up the first 3 stars, but it looks like you can select to put your point in Strength to open up the level 4 perks on your next level up. What remains to be seen is if you can "save" that point to put into a perk you want but may not be of high enough overall level to take.

Each star represents a rank. A filled star means you have that rank. An open star means you don't. In the video, when Todd selects (i.e., highlights) any of the perks, including the training perks, the first open star in the row blinks to indicate that that rank is available for the taking.

Right. It's been said three times, but I am still not sure that is indicative of being able to select a training perk for each atrribute- every level up, or if it shows where he is at, and he happens to have not used a training perk for that attribute yet.

-There are 10 possible ranks of any SPECIAL attribute you could have. If you have 5 stars filled in for any particular attribute, you can pick the 5th perk down- and any ranks that go along with them (provided you meet the level requirement).
When he says you have ten perks associated with each attribute, he doesn't mean 10 ranks of special training for each attribute. He means, going down, there are up to 10 different perks (some with ranks folded in) to choose from.

From the article the video is embedded in:
"That number also includes a top-level Training perk for each SPECIAL, so that you can essentially skip a regular Perk and raise a SPECIAL by 1."
This is what leads me to believe that there is only one Special Training perk per attribute.

You can't just put the next "40 or so perks" into training SPECIAL, they have level requirements (or at least they should).

Plus you would be gimping yourself as you would lack perks that you actually need.

When he goes over the SPECIAL attributes in the chart, though, each one shows empty stars for however many points you are away from 10. I just don't think Bethesda would limit us to just one increase in SPECIAL via perk.

I don't think there are level requirements for upping the SPECIAL, but I wouldn't complain if there was. They didn't show any level requirements when he hovered over the SPECIAL attributes in the video.

As referenced in the first sentence of my post you quoted, I am well aware of the TPS reports.. er... empty stars.
They sho where you are and how many possible there are.
If your build out gimped other attributes to place any of the other attribute to 10 (which is perfectly realistic for some builds), you would have 10 stars filled in.
No one is saying it is impossible to max out Special Attributes. I am saying I am not sure you can max out all special attributes, particularly through Special Training.

As it stands, the language I see is still:
"That number also includes a (one) top-level Training perk (no plural here) for each SPECIAL, so that you can essentially skip a regular Perk and raise a SPECIAL by 1."
If the language said "That number also includes top level Training perks (plural)" Then I would think differently.
Subtle, I know.

Each of the training perks has ten stars, and therefore -- if the interface is consistent -- each training perk has ten ranks just for it. Although it is conceivable that the UI designer screwed up, and made stars mean one thing for training perks and made them mean something entirely different for all other perks, I find it unlikely.

You level up, you get a point. You can use that point to get a new perk. You can use it to level up your SPECIAL. Or you can use it to level up a perk you already bought.

It's not that complicated. There's nothing that says you can't do one of those three things every time you level up.

The video shows no level requirements are required for training up your SPECIAL or the first rank in any standard perk. It is only the other ranks in a standard perk that have a level requirement.

If a level 1 character can have 10 Charisma, then a level 10 character should be be able to have 10 Charisma if they level up in just Charisma. Is it really gimping yourself by just leveling up your SPECIALs before your perks? Obviously some SPECIALs are more important to level up first than others. Intelligence seems to only affect XP gain so it could be ignored. Endurance seems to be the most important to level up first due to the increase in HP.

They've stated theres no level cap, like the skyrim update.. So it presents quite a problem.
"If i play long enough on this one guy, can i max EVERYTHING? Special and perks included?"
I'd say yeah, if they made it possiable in skyrim why not fallout. Baring in mind, while it was possiable, itd take a whileeee, so much so youd run out of new content than ever hit max of everything.

Anyway, half the fun of an RP is having a character thats specialised. Being THE BEST at everything feels very illegitamete and boring..

I see what you're saying...generally speaking, if there was a limit to how many times you could take that perk, I think there'd be extra representation of it. Like if you could only take it three times, I'd have the next three stars big, unfilled, and highlighted, with the remaining stars smaller and greyed out. I see where you're coming from, and you could be right, but I'd think we'd see more representation of that if it was the case.

I really hope it's not a completely ridiculous grind to get a maxed character. Good grind sure but not ridiculous please. Failing that modders please deliver us a mod that gives us loads of books to rank up on

Hehe Nothing against you Brother Grimm you seem to be Rather clever in fact. It's just my sense of humor or twisted mind. Every time I see this quote I think of the movie Deliverance........ And shake my head.... making piggy squealing noises....and crying sounds.

On point I saw the star's on the stat line and it seemed to me that was to show what your stat was at a glance, no idea how many intense training we can do or how its gonna work....

Also the kind of made a point for grognak comics (man did thoses look cool and I think I have actually read the conan versions heh) and the well 10 in that set at least....... I am not so sure its just a straight bonus (Barbarian is the gained perk ?) might be the more you get the better and more effects happen.

(and I am still holding out hope of actual skill book craft Items, this is well sorta of a real hard hope of mine.... Damn I want A barbarian wax axe and helmet heheh)

I will have to keep falling back to the singular text used in a Bethesda release.
There is also the text box telling you you have one point to spend. If we do run out, I would imagine it would tell you you have 0 points to spend.

The rub of it is that I can't see anything conclusive.

Actually, to make the interface consistent, all they have to do is show the maximum amount of possible ranks you can have for every possible build.
Follow me
The stars we see filled in match up with the SPECIAL numbers we see when the pip boy is first brought up. This looks to be initial build, if we count up the number of points past 1 for each attribute. So- the stars can't mean that the PC used perks to obtain them.

Let me put it another way.
-If this initial build reflected a 10 in Intelligence, gimping another stat or two to get it, we would see 10 stars filled in on the perk poster for INT. There is the potential for this to be done with any attribute during the initial build, so those stars need to be there for all of the attributes, every time. Even if they are never used.

The stars being there is not mutually exclusive with infinite special training. is what I am saying.
If that's conclusive enough for you, that's fine. But it's not empirical.

I'm not saying my take is necessarily right, either.

Actually it is. Although, infinite SPECIAL training doesn't exist since you can't get a SPECIAL past 10. The character that is shown in the video has used their SPECIALs 4 times since the number of initial SPECIAL stats is 28 and they have a total of 32. The number of empty stars should equal the number of additional SPECIALs that can be trained or some indicator like 6 out of 10 remaining since Charisma has only 2 stars filled and shows 8 empty stars remaining instead of however stars are remaining. So if SPECIALs can be increased 10 times through the perk system, then there should be 6 empty stars in Charisma Training instead of 8. Or else it should say under the Training dialog "Now you instantly gain 1 point! You have 6 points remaining." Without either of these two indicators, it is either shoddy programming or you can train your SPECIAL stats 42 times.

Having SPECIAL training capped at 42 makes sense due to the low number of initial SPECIAL stats in Fallout 4 compared to other Fallout games. Fallout 3 and New Vegas had a total of 40 for the initial SPECIAL stats. Since it possible to get all the SPECIAL stats to 10, then Bethesda can be stingy about the initial SPECIAL stats.

I'm pretty sure you can save points for later - there's literally no reason why Bethesda wouldn't let us, especially if there isn't a level cap. And the interface option shows "Choose (1)" and then "Close" right next to it. If it was like Fallout 3 or New Vegas where you had to pick a perk before leaving the chart, there wouldn't be an option to close the perk chart and they wouldn't show a number next to the "choose" option.

This is a pretty fundamental point.

I think you can level up your SPECIAL to 10,10,10,10,10,10,10 by level 29 if you really wanted to (no perks) if that's your choice.

The old 'raise your SPECiAL to 9' perk is gone.

In Fallout Shelter, you can also do so, and their methodologies are clearly consistent.

It's fools gold because the higher your level gets the longer it takes to level up.